M Riccobono Okay, so we should be recording. Okay, perfect. We're recording. So I am excited to introduce our speaker rallo guy goes is a access technology trainer. He does speak two languages, he speaks English and Spanish. He is from the state of Texas. And I first got to know role a couple of years ago, he helped us with a big technology workshop that we had for the national organization of parents of blind children. And we are really excited to have him and we know that he knows all about audio description, and he will tell you all about it. So without further ado, here is roll guy. Unknown Speaker Hi, and thank you, thank you for that. I am very happy to be here. And please let me know, Melissa, Nathan, if I'm not coming in through, okay, so I think everything's good. It's nice when technology works. And I can tell you as a technology instructor, that technology does not always work, right. So the good thing is, I'm not here to talk about technology. I'm here to talk about entertainment, because that's important. And specifically, today's topic is audio description, what is it? Why do we use it? And where can you get it, that kind of stuff. So, first off, audio description has several names, primarily, its audio description, but you may also have heard of it referred as DVS, which will typically Stanford description video services. And that has actually been around for quite a while. In fact, I think that right around maybe the early 90s, or mid 90s, is when I started seeing a lot of what was back then video cassettes that would would start coming in with audio description. And so most of you who have children that are probably less than 10 years old, probably have never, you know, the children have probably never seen a VHS or video cassette tape. But they do exist. And that's, that's how I started collecting my audio descriptive collection. And so because of the way the technology was, at the time, if you had a movie, let's say a movie from Disney or something, you would have to have two copies of it one, which was the commercial release, and the other one, which was the commercial release with the audio description added into it. And so what is it exactly? Basically, audio description is a narrative that somebody will read and describe to you what is going on, and specifically describe the video elements of what you are watching. And so Unknown Speaker it would not make a lot of sense for the description to include a repeat of the dialog. But it does describe things like what people are wearing, what color, what sort of facial expressions, what the scenery is, like, it is a very common thing, especially in movies that are a sci fi or adventure or, or even spy type movies where there's a lot of content, that is music only. And so people are doing stuff and you have no idea what they're doing. Because maybe it's a solo scene, you know, maybe the person isn't with anybody else to really interact with. And so they're doing something and all you hear is the music and sometimes you have to guess based on the music what's, what's about to happen, right? So for those of you who might have seen the jaws movie, you know, you you hear the Josh sound coming up, and you know, you know that something's gonna happen like that. Same thing with a lot of movies, you know, that, you know, from Disney, for example, you know, you can sometimes guess what's happening. Without the audio description, you can sort of put it together maybe afterward, when you do get that that content from the speech or when people are referring to something that happened earlier, but unfortunately, you get that later. And so unless you have some sort of a way to know what's going on as it's happening, then you might feel a little left out. So, so the audio description comes into play to kind of fill that gap and so it's really done in two steps. First, the Audio narrative is written by, you know, by a company or group. And then that narrative is then read by a narrator, who will, will do that. And so if, if a person is real good, they can actually describe movies on the fly, if you will, you know, I've got I've got a few sighted friends who are very good at describing things on the fly, but generally, the narrative is going to be written, and then you know, read, and then it's recorded over the track. And the nice thing about the narrative is that it's done in such a way that it minimizes interrupting what is going on with the movie. And so, in most cases, the narrative will not speak, while the actors themselves are speaking. And so that way, you don't have to try and listen to both at the same time. The exception to that rule is if you're watching some content, that the the actors are speaking in a different language, and there is a set of subtitles on the screen that give an English what the person is saying. And you know, that makes it accessible for every one that way than the audio describer will read what is being said at the same time. And so in a lot of cases like that, you will see that kind of overlapping with what the person is saying, and really, there's no way around that. So you know, so I do want to mention that, that those are some of those cases. So before, before I go on to the next part, and showing examples of what audit was sounds like and then you know, after that going on to the fun stuff of, you know, where do we get it and all that, I want to go ahead and stop for for a moment to see if there's any questions so far, based on on what I've mentioned. Unknown Speaker Okay. And if there are no questions, that's, that's great. I will go ahead and continue. So before I get into where, where you can get it and some of the examples of where you know what content has it in terms of availability, I'm going to, I'm going to play for you a little bit of what it will sound like. And based on what you're listening to, you should be able to guess what movie this is. And I will tell you, it's not a new movie, but it is a popular movie. Alright, so here it goes. Unknown Speaker flank waves on top of a capital's tallest spire. A bright display of fireworks explodes in the sky, a glowing pinpoint of light arcs over the castle. Walt Disney Pictures Unknown Speaker titled Walt Disney Pictures presents a cartoon a giant yellow sun rises into a golden sky. It lights up a huge Savanna a flat grassland that stretches as far as the eye can see. Since grey rhinos with horns growing from their snouts, gear like gazelles, skinny little meerkats, and asleep spotted Cheetah long legged storks flap into the sky, they fly over a waterfall which tumbles over a cliff as tall as a skyscraper. Unknown Speaker Does, right? So, if you haven't guessed by now, that's the Lion King from 1994. And the thing about the Lion King is it's a very good movie. Unknown Speaker It's one of my favorites. But there is no dialogue for probably the first good five minutes of the movie, you know, so you get this music you have some really nice sound effects of different animals. And if you know what, what the animals are based on the sound, yes, you can tell that there are these animals on in the scene but you don't know what they're doing. You don't know what's going on. And so some of the scenery and some of the the visuals that take place at the very beginning of this movie, is basically what sets the tone for things that happen later on in the movie. And so getting that audio description is very important for you, you or your child to be able to interact with this movie and become Emotionally a part of this movie and enjoy it. And so this narrator that are the audio describer, that was speaking, he is His voice is is very common to be heard for a lot of other audio described content. In fact, I'm a Star Wars fan, and all of the Star Wars movies. Definitely the first six movies are described by him. And so they're, you know, you'll you'll, as you watch more and more audio content or audio described versions of movies or TV shows, you will start to recognize certain narrators and you know, you kind of get a feel for how they, they will describe things. Now, you know, what I'm about to tell you now is purely an opinion. And so, you know, people are gonna have different feelings on this, there are two types of narrators that will will typically describe things and some sort of get emotionally involved with the description. And so if a funny scene happens, they will describe it with sort of like a funny sound to their voice, meaning like, they'll smile or you know, whatever. Others are more neutral, and they keep their voice neutral at all times, kind of a little more monotone. And, and so, you might have certain feelings on whether that's good or bad. Personally, I would rather have the narrator stay neutral, so that if I want to react positively, or negatively, or happy or sad, I can do that, based on the information I'm getting, rather than what the narrator is doing. Because it's not really an audiobook. It's an audio movie or TV show. And so it is it is different. And so, a lot of times, if I'm listening to an audiobook, you know, then yeah, I might want the narrator to kind of, you know, change his or her voice a little bit and the inflection not be so monotone. But that's because it's an audiobook. And so that's, you know, kind of a different, you know, different thing to consider. But again, that's purely an opinion. And you'll find that, while you might not be able to change how it's already been done, you will at least, you know, kind of have that in mind in terms of, you know, as you as you listen to audio described content. So where is it available, right, so I have all this audio described content stuff I'm talking to you about, I've mentioned VHS cassette tapes, which, you know, we'll be honest, really are kind of hard to come by nowadays. So the next set will be DVDs. So a lot of times, if you buy a DVD, it will, or it may or may not come with an audio described content, audio track. However, blu rays, which are the newer form of the discs, most always nowadays will have an audio track that includes the audio description. And what's really cool about that is if you have a a blu ray player with a remote that has a dedicated language button, you can easily switch languages and it will you know, go from the standard English, it might have English to channel surround sound, it might have a director's commentary, it might have other languages like Spanish or French or Italian etc. and included in those language tracks, it will have the audio description track in there as well. And so if you remember earlier, I mentioned that in the old days with VHS tapes, you had to have two copies of your movie, you know, so the DVD and the blu ray parts kind of solves that. So you really only need one copy of the movie. And if it has the audio track that you know with the description, then you simply switch it with the audio button. Unknown Speaker The other place that you can get them are going to be through streaming services. So streaming services is sort of like that's it that's today's world that we're in every everyone or most everyone that I know of has at least one streaming service that that they'll pay for on a monthly basis depending on your budget depending on on your feelings on what like a certain one or not could could determine which one you have. Unknown Speaker And, and so I will give you a list of some of the ones that I have seen that have audio description content, keeping in mind that this list is constantly changing. And what I say today could be different tomorrow or it could be different next month. So one of the first streaming services to have audio described content was Netflix, they started adding a lot of the audio described content into their streaming library, I want to say maybe around 2012, or 2013. And have have started to build on that. And so now a lot of TV shows and movies will have that in there. And so when you when you choose the Netflix app, depending on how how you access it, which I'll get into in a little bit, will allow you to choose what language you want to listen to, or watch the TV show or movie. And so not only is Netflix adding a lot of audio description, but they're also adding a lot of alternate languages. In fact, it's actually very similar to the way the blu ray audio selection is that I mentioned earlier, where some shows that I see on Netflix will have made a list of 12 different audio tracks for for that particular movie or show. And that will include the audio description, and in some cases, It even includes audio description, and multiple languages. And so it is a very, very rich list of choices on Netflix. Another one that has audio description is amazon prime videos. And so for those of you who are Amazon, customers, and specifically amazon prime customers, just in case, you only were using Amazon Prime for that free two day delivery for millions of products and items. You can also use Amazon Prime to watch a lot of video content for TV shows and whatnot. And a lot of them will also have audio described content. In my opinion, I would say that Netflix still has maybe a little more. However, the gap is closing with what what Amazon has. And it also could be that maybe the stuff that I like to watch on Netflix compared to the stuff I like to watch on Amazon makes it so that I can, you know, find more audio described content on Netflix. So take that with a grain of salt, I don't have any numbers to back up what I'm saying. It's just merely my observation. One of the things about amazon prime is that it also includes prime channels, and sort of like prime add ons, if you will. And so one of the content for for prime is going to be available through IMDb TV, which is part of the prime channel. It's a free add on the Amazon Prime has. And some of the IMDb TV movies and TV shows have audio description as well. And so I just kind of lumped them in together with with available from Amazon. And you know, just kind of put them there in that in that section together. The next one that has audio described content is Hulu. And Hulu, in my opinion is is probably my one of my least favorites that has the audio described content, partially because they're kind of new in town in terms of audio described content, know who's been around for years, but they just recently started adding it and their interface at least on my television is a little weird. And that also could be because I don't watch it quite as much. But they they do have it. And they seem to only have it with newer TV shows. And so if you're looking for for older TV shows or older movies that that are available on Hulu, they may not have that audio current audio described content. So it is there. And next one is one of my favorites is knee plus. So Disney plus is is one of the newer players into the streaming genre, if you will of services. And when Disney plus for started, I think they started last year when they when they first started their service. They had a lot of audio describe content, but not everything that you would think with audio description was actually there. However that changes constantly and it's and it gets better and better. I actually recently watched Brother Bear and Brother Bear to with audio description for the very first time thanks to Disney Plus, I had never seen those movies with the audio description and the Brother Bear movies or to my favorite Disney movies and I had watched the movie so many times. Especially the first Brother Bear movie over the years that I had pretty much put together you know what was going on and you know that kind of stuff. But it was it was really nice to be able to to watch Watch that with the description. So that's Disney Plus, Unknown Speaker there is also let me see here, I lost track of my notes here. You can also get audio described content through live TV. And so live TV any more is often streamed through services like YouTube TV, or even Hulu has live TV. But even if you, even if you don't stream live TV, let's say that you have a good old fashioned antenna, you can get the audio description content, sometimes through what's called the sap channel, which is a secondary audio programming. And so especially if, you know certain TV shows like PBS may have some some of the Primetime channels will have some and stuff like that. So the audio described content will be available that way. And the the sap secondary audio programming channel is not new, it's actually been around for a while. And there have been times that I would watch live TV, you know, maybe I want to say in the mid 90s, when when audio description really started. And some of the shows would have that in there. Sometimes it would be Spanish audio language, but sometimes it would be the audio described. And so that that is still around, although in my personal usage, it's one of the least least ones use because of all the streaming and blu rays and all that kind of stuff that's available. If you are a subscriber to cable TV or satellite services, not only are the digital boxes now accessible to us, in most cases, but also, the audio description will be available through there to watch through the different TV shows and or channels, if audio description is provided to begin with, so there's no guarantee that it will be available on a particular TV show or movie. But it can be accessed that way through your providers control system or set top box or accessible remote. And I confess, I'm a little rusty with that I have been a what is called cable cutter for a few years now. And so I'm not really up on the latest and greatest with accessible set top boxes and remotes and that kind of stuff. But I will talk a little bit about about you know, getting the equipment here shortly. Next are two services that are specific, specifically designed to offer audio described content and and it's done in what some people would consider a gray area. And so I put that disclaimer out there because there is such a thing as copyright law, you know, so for example, you you technically can't purchase, for example, a movie or an audiobook or some kind of a media and rebroadcast it over the internet. Right. So there, you know, there are specific copyright laws that protect that. However, there is also a copyright law. And, and I'm no legal expert. So I'm just kind of telling you from a layman's point of view that if you buy content, and you are making it accessible for yourself, then you know there is that that provision to allow for that to happen. So I say that because these next two services, some people who view kind of a gray area, one of them is a paid service, that is called Cerro, it's s er o and they offer a lot of content for people who are blind, or low vision and one of the things that they offer is audio described content. Now what the what they do is they only stream the audio portion of it. So you're not getting the video, it's literally just the audio. And, and so they will have a lot of movies, a lot of TV shows, you know, things, you know, things that they have collected and allow you to stream it that way through various different apps and whatnot. And then the other one is a website that has some, you know, the similar kind of disclaimers as to what I mentioned just now and that one's called audio vault. And that's audio Balt I believe it's dotnet. And they will allow you to download the mp3 files which are audio only of the various different TV shows and movies so that you can listen to them on your own devices. So those are pretty much the more popular places as I mentioned. Personally, I just rather go with the streaming services that I already have. And you know the content is growing on that. Okay, so I'd like to pause for a bit to answer some questions before I go on to the next section. M Riccobono So role there is a question in the chat box. And it's asking is there a way to get audio description on smart TVs using a TV providers app? Unknown Speaker Great question. And that actually ties into the next segment of what I'm going to talk about. So that that will be answered, M Riccobono will be answered wonderful. Unknown Speaker Any others? Okay. So before I go on to devices, and stuff like that, I want to talk to you a little bit, a little bit about cost of some of these services. So if you, if you go with the first option that I mentioned, like blu rays, and, you know, DVDs of some kind, typically, you know, blu rays will cost anywhere from, sometimes if you buy them used, maybe you know, 510 dollars, if you buy them new, you know, maybe 1520 $25 if you get kind of crazy about a really good movie that you like, and you buy it the day it's released, I have been known to pay $30 for a blu ray, which I don't know if I should be proud of admitting that or not, but you know, it is the truth. And so I, you know, will will often buys, I will often buy blu ray movies, I still buy them on occasion, even though streaming seems to be the norm. But that way I can, you know, kind of watch stuff. I think it sounds better on a blu ray, especially if you have the right kind of equipment for it. Because streaming, you know, you still there are some issues with streaming still, not to mention the whole internet provider requirement in the right speed and all that. But because most of it most everything is streaming, I'm going to go over a few costs for for streaming. So as I mentioned, these, I'm not getting any sort of kickbacks or anything like that, this is just some just information I'm passing along. So Netflix, typically, if you get the cheapest plan with Netflix streaming, it's going to be around eight or $9. And that's for the single use. And that's usually basically what the way most streaming services salad is based on how many screens are watching it at the same time. You know, though, so you can watch as much or as little as you want. But the the cost will determine how many people are gonna watch at the same time. So if you're a small family, you know, whether it's a, you know, maybe not that many kids are only one child and you know, you might get the lower plan, if not, everybody's going to be watching it at the same time. So Netflix, like I said, cost around eight or $9. And then you can go up to the 1299 plan, and then to the 1599 plan. And all that does is add more screens. And so if you're a large family, lots of kids and parents, everyone wants to watch Netflix, then you might want to consider the 12 or the $15 plan. If you happen to be on T Mobile as your mobile service provider, they will pay for your Netflix, if you're on most of their regular plans that they offer, they'll usually pay for the single, you know, the cheapest Netflix or even at 1299 Netflix. And so you know that helps with that. Next is Hulu. As I mentioned, Hulu has different plans, including a local channel plan. So their plans usually start at right around $6. And then they go up to you know, $9 and that has limited commercials and then like nine and $12 for less commercials. And then of course, it jumps up probably around 40 or $50 if you go with their local channel plan, and most of the services that offer the local channels that are the streaming local channels, without the you know, physical set top boxes like a cable provider or satellite provider, they're going to be on average from maybe 35 $40 on up. So that's Hulu Disney plus I believe costs around 699 per month. And there there's actually a a at least I got this when they had it. I don't know if they still have it. So you might want to check but they they had for a while a Hulu Disney and ESPN plan which was I think it's 1299 and that's the one I have. And so it gives you all three of those services for one, one flat fee. And so, you know that way it kind of in a few if you're going to watch all three of those and you need to kind of do the math and divide that out by three, you know, kind of be A little more economical that way. And most of the services, as you're probably guessing, are anywhere from about $6 at the low end to about 12, or $13, on average. And then of course, there's a few that are a little more. Unknown Speaker So those, those are the ones that I would talk about Amazon, as I mentioned, you, you pay, I think it's 120 a year, or I think you can pay 1299 per month for their services. But keep in mind that if you subscribe to Amazon Prime, you are not getting just the video services, but you're also getting a lot of other benefits, including the shopping, and borrowing Kindle books, and they've got a long list of stuff that you get by going with prime. And so that's the other one. And then there's different local channel TV streaming services, that will offer some of the content and that's going to kind of get into the what I'm going to talk about with the various different apps and whatnot. So for example, YouTube TV, offer services, and then the you know, they have their, quote, unquote, step channel on a lot of their live TV stuff that you can get the audio described content. And last I checked their service actually recently went up to I think, 70 or 75 per month. And so they do offer a lot of stuff, it is very accessible. But they are you know, kind of in that price range. And keep in mind that a service like YouTube TV is not going to be your your typical on demand streaming, it's going to basically be live TV, and cable style channels. So up until the YouTube TV, all the other ones I was mentioning are basically you're on demand. There's also other on demand ones that I haven't mentioned. And part of the reason for that is they don't have audio, audio described content, at least none that I have found. That's going to be stars, which is sta RS z. They don't, they don't have any audio description, at least when I when I check last. Some of the some of the quote unquote movie channels will also have their on demand services that they sell separately or, or as a bundled package, HBO, for example. They've been really pushing the HBO max lately. And I found out recently that you can get it for free, if you have at&t services, whether it's your mobile, or you're using at&t for internet, you can get HBO max for free. And so I got that I got it set up. But I haven't found any audio described content on it either. And I think by itself, I think it runs maybe around 15 a month. And then there's Showtime, which also has audio described content, I'm sorry, it's also on demand streaming, but it does not have audio described content. And so you know, you have you have to kind of the nice thing about a lot of these services is they will allow you to have like, sometimes a seven day trial, sometimes a one month trial, you know, so you can kind of look at that. And then you can test it for yourself to see if a it's going to be accessible, and be if it's going to have the audio content, if that's something that you're specifically looking for. And so some of the other streaming services that are available for free for full channel lineup are is going to be like I said, I mentioned Hulu, there's the 18 t TV, which you get a discount if you're an at&t subscriber. And I think if you pay for them, just outright, I think their cost is maybe around 50 or 60 per month. And then they also have the add ons where you can add the TV channels and stars and and you know, all that kind of all the cart type stuff. And then there is xfinity which is part of the Comcast XFINITY network. And I think the way they do it unless they've changed is if you have their services for internet, you can subscribe to the xfinity tv without having cable for a certain price. But if you do have their cable TV service, then they're the price for the streaming portion is a little cheaper. And so they as you can probably tell all these different services the way they're kind of designed, could be a little confusing or it could seem like it's you know, kind of go goes all over the place. And I suspect that that's Not by accident. I think that, you know, that's just part of the whole marketing and how that kind of stuff is done. So how do we access this and what what devices do we use? So Unknown Speaker you can use mobile phone, for example, any smartphone, Android iPhone, most of these apps are going to be accessible with that, especially the ones I mentioned, like Netflix, Disney plus, Hulu, those are going to be accessible on iOS devices and on Android devices. Another kind of device that I really like a lot, especially if you've got kiddos in your family are going to be the Kindle Fire tablets. Not only are they cheap to replace, in case they suffer, accidents, as as devices tend to do sometimes. But they also, you know, have very nice parental controls, if that's important. And they also have you know, you you get them in the even though they're primarily designed to work with Amazon, you can install all the various different apps, as if you had an Android device. And right around Black Friday time, or even Prime Day during the summer, I have seen Kindle fires go for as little as like 20 or $25. And, you know, typically they're around, you know, 40 or $50. And so it's a very cheap tablet, don't expect them to last very long. But, you know, they will be far cheaper than like an iPad Pro, for example. So that's one way that you can get them. If you have a smart TV, there's different types of smart TVs or smart TV plugins. So for example, there are Samsung TVs, LG TVs, which are basically Android TVs. And while those are accessible through the various different accessibility that Android offers, like talkback and stuff like that, I personally and I like Android very much, you know, I Android is my primary phone that I use. But in terms of entertainment and TV, I have found that the Amazon Fire TV edition is probably the the best one in terms of accessibility. And that that there is also in addition to to the TVs that are an entire TV that has the services built in as there are the physical plugins, they kind of look like a USB stick or they're, you know, tiny digital set top boxes. So you can get a Roku stick, you can get a fire TV stick, you can get an Apple TV, in these basically will plug into your existing television, even if that television itself is not accessible. It'll plug into an HDMI port. And then you can switch to that input port and then control your Roku or or fire TV stick and whatnot. And those will have a built in accessibility. Once you are in one of these systems, if you will, you can install the various different apps that I mentioned like Hulu, Netflix, Disney plus, etc. and have the audio described content come through that way. And so you have a lot of choices. All right questions. M Riccobono This is a lot of great information. It is 242. And our next session is going to start at three. So just I mean, we can certainly stay on until three or a little before three. But just keep that in mind. I don't know a roll. I had to I had to step away a minute. But did you mention places like iTunes and I? Well, I guess you mentioned amazon prime. But you can buy movies like I know I've bought movies from iTunes also, that have description right in them, which is really nice because we're an Apple TV family. So we just buy them on our Apple TV, and they come with audio description, Unknown Speaker which I did not. And thank you for reminding me of that. So I'm typically the kind of person who doesn't buy movies if they're streamed. I feel kind of weird about that. But but that is an option. And in fact, one thing that I really like about how Apple has done the accessibility is that if you go into the accessibility settings of your eye device, whether it's iPhone or iPad, it has a section specifically for audio description. If you turn that on, then movies that you watch through iTunes or through Netflix or through any app that is looking for that tag will automatically enable the audio description. And so it it kind of makes it nice to do that. While on that topic. Netflix also has an accessibility icon. So when you find a certain movie, it will show that the accessibility icon and it's labeled and whatnot. And it will tell, you know, that basically means that it's going to have the audio description. And I think that Disney plus is starting to add that as well, you know, because most of the stuff on Disney is already audio described. M Riccobono So there's one question in the chat and then I know we have a raised hand. But the question in the chat is our can we have your notes roll so that we can make sure that we can post all this great stuff, we do have a webpage for your workshop, and we'd love to post any of these any of this information for people that, you know, would like to have all the information that you shared? Unknown Speaker Yeah, I can I can email if I can get an address of who to send the my my notes to. I can certainly get that emailed later this week. M Riccobono Yeah, info at an op bc.org. And, and the person who chatted, it's actually Eric says, maybe you should write an article, which I also think is a fantastic idea. Okay. And then I know there's a raised hand, okay. Unknown Speaker Yes, Juliet Christensen, I'm unmuting. You right now. Unknown Speaker Okay, what about renting from YouTube? Does that have audio description? Unknown Speaker Not always. I have. I have, unfortunately, rented movies a couple of times to kind of test it out. And it seems to be hit or miss. And the thing about renting and I've done this from YouTube, but I've also done it from Amazon, is that it's a lot of times like if you want to try to get a refund, because it's not accessible. It's more trouble. You know what I mean? So you're very, yes. One thing, one thing else I'd like to add kind of going back on on the on the apple side of things is that Apple TV also has a streaming service. In fact, that's what it's called. So there's the physical Apple TV box, that you know that that sort of like what I mentioned, like the fire stick, or the Roku stick and stuff like that. But Apple TV has streaming services as well. And anything that Apple themselves have created, if it's an Apple TV original, will be audio described. All right? M Riccobono Well, thank you so much. I do want to make sure that people have time to get up and stretch their legs a bit. Before our next session, our next session does begin at three o'clock. And it's a general session. And it's a great session, because it's all about blind students, young young adults who are going to tell their stories. And they'll also be a little bit of a presentation regarding how the convention, you know, just all the things that convention offers for your family. So please join us for that session. Thank you so much roll for being here. I do agree, I think an article would be great. Please get your handout to info at an opc.org. We'd love to put it up on our website. And thank you very much to Nick, who was our host on the NFB side of this meeting. We really appreciate your help making this all work beautifully. Knock on wood without a hitch, I think. Unknown Speaker Thank you very well, M Riccobono though. Thank you all so much for joining us. And we will hopefully see you at three o'clock and our next session. Unknown Speaker Bye Bye. Take care. Unknown Speaker Thank you. Transcribed by https://otter.ai