Unknown Speaker Be able to have time for questions and things like that at the end, because I don't do great just talking to myself, I like to talk to others, um, and also want to address any specific things that you guys have. Um, so my name is Kristen Sims. And I realized now that I did not put my name or contact information on the first screen, but I think I put it at the end. Anyway, I hope so. Um, the title of this presentation is I like to move it, which is practical and fun ways to include cane travel skills, and everyday life, even if you're stuck at home, which is a very long title. And I think they changed it for the budget. So um, but basically, we've had a really creative with providing O and M instruction for kids at home. And, um, I thought it might be nice to put together some of the different things we've been doing to try and encourage movement at home. And this is by no means an exhaustive list, but I hope that you get something out of it. Okay, so to encourage, can you so those kind of the way I broke things down is on do, you know, to encourage cane use in court courage, orientation, skills, spatial skills, those kinds of things, those are all important skills with orientation and mobility. So for encouraging cane use, one of the simple ways to do that is to you to have an obstacle course, you can make an obstacle course out of anything, you can move some chairs around, you can put big plastic totes on the ground. Different things like that will help to provide a little maze or a little more fun when moving around. Also, and this one I have to, I have to go ahead and say this is my intern that came up with this, although we've all played it before, I believe if you're at least a person of a certain age, the floor is lava. So when the floor is lava, you can't touch the ground, right, so you have to use your cane, and you have to look for the next thing to step on. So you can throw around pillows on the floor cardboard, little small stools that you can step on those different things I know whenever I was a kid we like to jump, we like to try and get from the couch to a chair or something. But those are good things to find and encourage your children to use a cane to find that next thing because your cane is longer than your arm. And what better way to figure that skill out than to have to jump across something and you can find it with your cane before your feet can touch it. This one I called the corner cane technique. So whenever you're learning to use a cane, you can stand in the corner with your back to the corner, so the corner is right behind you. And you can tap your cane from side to side. And what you're wanting to do is get your cane arc wide enough that you're hitting each wall. Because I'll tell you this parent, as a cane instructor, I can always help someone make their cane arc more narrow. But it's very difficult to get it wide enough that it covers their entire body. Typically, whenever they get kind of lazy with their cane, they're going to go smaller, um, with the movement, they're not going to be worldwide with the movement. Another fun cane game, I like to call it is red light green light. And so with this, you're practicing walking in steps. So what I mean by in step is that whenever you are stepping with your left hand, your cane, left hand, your left foot, sorry, when you are stepping with your left foot, your cane is swinging to the right. When you are stepping with your right foot, your cane is swinging to the left. So you're really clearing a path ahead of you as you walk. So with red light, green light and go kind of slow, you can go you know, red light, and our base stops, right. And then whenever you say green light, people will step forward and you want them to go, you know, with your kids, you would want them to go slow enough that they can keep that movement going from A to B in step, like I said, but you can also do more than that you can talk about why do we go whenever it is a green light and who would have the green light and you can bring in parallel and perpendicular and the types of things that kids would be learning when they're doing street crossings. So that's a good way to introduce that vocabulary and a good way to introduce that skill. Unknown Speaker I keep losing my controls on my computer. So just bear with me, I'm sorry. Um, okay, so this one, this one's a little boy. And I came up with this one. And it was monster steps and, and we could you could do anything, you can do monsters, you can do animals. One day, we were both bears. And bears are big animals. So they need a big cane arc, and you want to swing your cane really wide. And then one day we were penguins. And so penguins are really small. So our cane technically cat pencil grip, because they're really small. And so their feet don't move very fast. And we went on, we have more of a narrow cane, you know, arc, and we also tapped really big if we were a monster, like a big monster, a big animal. And then we tapped really lightly if we were a small animal, and that was one way I got that particular child. And he was younger, probably about four, about five or six years old. That was one way I got him to really think about how hard he was having the cane and how wide he was swinging the cane and was the swing yet like a bear. And I can bring that back in later. So as we got more, where we were just doing a route, or we were just going to his classroom or exploring around the environment, I could say, Oh, wait, you're holding that cane an awful lot like a penguin. Whenever I think we're in a bear environment, or, you know, this is a big monster place, not a little monster place. So, um, then there is hide and seek. And I have two different ways to do hide and seek. So I have one that's like, um, I don't know more. For older kids and kids who are, you know, very mobile. That's the toy addition. So one person would place toys at different sizes. And this can be done with a group. Especially if you have signed up for the cane walk and you have a teaching cane at home for parents. Or if you have, you know, more than one cane at the house and you have multiple children, they can everybody can put on learning shades and go into this particular room and find the toys on the ground. And the one who can find, oh, the rule is have to say the rule is that your cane has to touch the toy, not your foot. So your cane touches the toy and makes it sound right. Most the time it will make it sound, you might want to be strategic about what kind of toys you use, so that they will make a sound whenever they're touched with a cane. Um, with a smallest toy gets a prize and the person who finds the most toys gets a prize. Um, then there is the bin. Oh, and I'm going to tell you within NFB straight cane fibreglass cane with a metal tip, you're going to be able to find something very tiny. If you really try. I have told people that before they didn't believe me, and then we put a penny on a carpeted floor and we found it. Now, it wasn't without patience, of course, but you are able to find that because you can feel a lot through that cane. So for the vintage edition, I was thinking this would be for kids who are not as mobile maybe or kids who are younger. So what you would do is you put you would kind of glue stickers like big foam stickers, or you could put glue some little bitty toys like and I always think of little toys as being the little toys you would get in the happy mail or some little plastic toys. You put it in a bin then can be big or it can be small depends on your child and what they need. And then you fill it up with rice beans or pasta now this is good for low vision kids who are typically wanting to use their vision if you fill that up, well then you know, it's not going to you don't even need to have any kind of learning shades on them because they can't see what's under there. And that's anybody nobody would be able to see what's under there. And then you use a spoon or some tongs. Um, and I usually I like chopsticks, like the kind that you get from the takeout place the little wooden ones anyway so they can think they feel around and it's a tiny little teeny, tiny little cane. And they'll fill around on the bottom and see what they can find. Um Unknown Speaker so and then you just see how many you know you'll you would know how many you put on the bottom there, but they can And then they can see what kind of shapes they are, are they, um, stars did you put circles in there? Is it hard is it soft like foam, they can find out a lot of information just from the little tool that they're using. And that kind of builds a cause and effect effect relationship that you want with Kane travel. Um, another one, and bear with me while I sing. Well, spoken word. Um, so the cane. There's a whole bunch of cane songs. And I believe Perkins has a list of songs that you can use, but one that I use all the time is to the tune of Row, row, row your boat. So here I go, sorry. Swing, swing, swing your king quickly down, tapping and tapping and tapping and tapping so you can hear the walls. So, um, can we use I teach within NFB straight fiberglass cane. I've also used D canes, which are very similar. They're, they're hollow, they have a metal tip. They have some flexibility to them. But the importance of that cane and the importance of the the tapping of the gives the metal tip and the texture you're getting from that the tactile feedback you get from those canes, when that makes the song makes sense, really. Um, but the echo location is why they can hear the walls. Alright, you guys stop me if you have any questions, just um, I don't know, raise your hand or unmute and say your name, I have no problem with that it's very loose. Because I'm gonna admit, I kind of feel like I'm talking to nobody, I'm or to myself. Alright, so to encourage listening skills. Now, the sound scavenger hunt, I do a lot with children anyway. Um, just because it gets them thinking beyond their cane beyond with their touching beyond what their feet are feeling. It gets them listening out to the environmental noises. Um, so one way you can do that is to make a list of sounds that you hear on a walk and things that you would hear in your neighborhood. So I'm in my neighborhood, there are rubber tracks near my house. So I might put a train sound right more, I might put the sound of cars going over the train. I also have water River near my house. So there's lots of birds. And there's also bugs and things like that. So I might put some of those things in there. We also perpetually have fall leaves, I don't know why. Um, but we have leaves that would be crunchy or crinkly. And so those things would go on the list. And then we would go on our walk and we would see if we can find all the things on the list. Now if you are doing this with a lot of people, um, or if you have a family network that you can, you know, get in touch with, you can create a master list of sounds, and then everybody can go out and try to find them and maybe make like a little email chain or a texting thing for the kids to be working with each other, especially if you have older children that you know, that could be going out and doing some of this in the neighborhood independently, um, for at least finding things in their backyard and stuff like that. Um, the next one, I don't know, if you guys are familiar with the book going on a bear hunt. I love that book. Um, and we use it a lot. I especially use it a lot to teach problem solving, because you can't go over it can't go under, it can't go around, it got to go through it is part of the, um, the mantra that they had in there. They also talk about Now sometimes whenever we're walking on cane travel, we do need to go around it or we do need to go over it. But Unknown Speaker the you can find videos on YouTube that have this habit in a sing song version. There's also the audio book is also on YouTube where they're reading out the book. Um, anyway, but I don't say I've got my binoculars on there. I say I've got my cane. Sometimes I'll say I've got my learning shades, which are the occlusion shades that go on kids. And then we talk about the things that this the different sounds that things make. So again, kind of like the sound scavenger hunt, we think about where we would go on our bear hunt. So we're going out searching for a bear And so we might come, if you're going out searching for a bear, you're going to be probably walking through the woods, and what kind of sounds to put we hear in the woods. And then you can, you can say, oh, and then we're going to come across a field and in that field is a is a stream, what would it sound like for that, and then you keep going and keep building on those environmental cues, and, and, and come up with a little, it's just a little rhyme, you can do that at home, and just kind of talk it out. Or you can go out in your backyard and pretend like you know, you're going on a bear hunt. Or you can go for a walk in your neighborhood, or a park. And think about the different sounds that you hear out there. You can look up sounds on Google or YouTube or whatever, and listen to the way they sound. And talk about that and use it as an, you know, an experience for you as a family. There's also echolocation practice. So echolocation is the sounds bouncing off of solid objects. Um, so if you have a cane with a metal tip, and you can tap it in different places and pick up the different sounds that the cane makes. And when I say tap, you just tap on the ground mount on the object, so you just have it on the ground. You can also tap it on objects and see what sounds they make. But the echo location would be telling you the sound bouncing off of the object. For instance, whenever you're walking in a or when you're in a room that is big, you're going to have a lot more echoes, echoes are going to seem a little louder, but they're also going to be very spread out and sound like they're coming from all around you. If you're in a room that is very small, your echoes are going to be like they sound like they're coming right here by your face right here by your head. Um, and even whenever you have a like a low table or desk or chairs, I'm like you can hear the echo bouncing from underneath it. Cars are really good because you can hear um, when you walk behind a car, you can hear the echo coming from underneath it. So um, but you can you know, have your kids practice tapping their cane in different places and see what sounds it may does the sound come from a pie does it come from town low? Is it very loud is a quiet and compare them so that they can begin to make a soundscape of the world. All right, to encourage listening and spatial skills. So, I Spy, everybody knows that game, right? I spy with my little eye. Instead, I play I hear with my little ear, and I am totally ripping this off of a parent that I worked with. They used to do this while they were waiting for, you know, anything to happen with their child. And so and it was the whole family would do that they took turns talking about the different things they could hear. So, um, it could be description, so sometimes they would say, Oh, I hear with my little ear, something really high pitched. And then everybody would close their eyes and they would listen and saw sir that close your eyes to listen, but I can honestly tell you that it's easier to hear something sometimes whenever you close your eyes. Um, so then they would people would try and guess is it? Is it the sound over here on my right or is it this sound right here? Is it the sound of the car running outside that needs to have be taken to the shop or whatever. So, um, that that was a, that's one way or they could say I hear with my little ears something Unknown Speaker that Unknown Speaker flies. And that could be that they heard a bird or they heard an airplane or they heard a fly or a bee buzzing. So um, you know that, that that's different things or something that moves people, um, like I put on here, so that could be a car or it could be an escalator. So you can be creative with your description, but also it gives people a chance to like really explore the environment with what they can hear. Unknown Speaker Um Unknown Speaker so the next thing I have on here is a penguin dance. And I know this is a lot I'm going to try and get this to Carlton so that she can get it out to people or we can put it on some kind of thing. This song, PowerPoint. I'm the penguin dance. So this is a video on YouTube from by jack Hartman. And jack Hartman has a really cute YouTube channel, my children when they were in kindergarten, well, one of them still in kindergarten. Um, when my daughter was in kindergarten, he's been around for a while. And now my son, they love jack Hartman. And he has some really great videos as far as like, positional words, following directions, um, some great like movement days, you know, movement songs, but he does the penguin dance and the penguin dance goes. Have you ever seen a penguin come to T when you look at me a penguin you will see, this is great for winter. And then you say penguins attention penguins begin and then the first time you go through it, you say right flipper, and the kids have to tap have to flap the right flipper. Unknown Speaker Okay, Unknown Speaker so then you go through it all again. And you go right flipper then left flipper. So they have to think about their right and they have to think about their left, you go back through it again, you add the right leg, you go back through it, again, you add the left leg, every time that you add something, you still have to go through each individual thing and you don't stop moving them. Okay, so once you you do your right flipper, then your left flipper, and they're still moving, they will sync up, and then your right leg and then your left leg. And then you could turn around in a circle, you nod your head and you quack those are the different things and, um, that you add, but every time you do that, it's like a call on repeat song, you're adding something else. And it's really great for kids because they can begin to think about their where their body is in space and how it moves and each individual limb working separately. And so it's good for for developing right and left. And there's some bright side left side songs, but that's a really fun little song to play. And again, a lot of songs on YouTube are fine, they're very easy to adapt, because you just say different words overall. And nobody, you know, little kids don't care how bad you sing. I've noticed, they may tell you that you sing bad, but they don't really care. Um, so if they're your children, and they really, they have no room to talk, because they're going to sound just like you one day, right? Um, cardinal directions. So, um, to encourage orientation skills, cardinal directions is like number one. Some people don't think it's really important. I know, a lot of people don't think it's really important. Because whenever I tell my husband that something is north of something else, and he looks at me like I'm insane. Um, but it is really important because especially with flying kids, because whenever they get to be a little older, and they start asking for directions, everybody's Left, left and right are subjective, right. So it helps them to put things in order, and lets you know how things are related to one another. Okay, so one thing we did at our virtual Bell Academy was play the song never eat soggy waffles to talk about cardinal directions. And it's a cute little song, I'm not going to subject everybody to that song right? Right now, but it is, um, it's a it's a song. It's a silly, silly song The kids love it. Um, and then another thing you can do is make a map of your room. That's another thing that we did as part of Bell and and but it is something you can do at home. And that's easy to do just took a piece of paper and you take some different textured things, I just used index cards and I use post it notes and I use stickers and things like that to make things feel different. But then we talked about where everything was in relation to the other thing. And it gets kids to think about things not just based on where they are but where they are in relation to other things. For instance, I am sitting facing my computer right now so that you guys can see me those of you who want to look at me and or can look at me whatever. Um and so and I'm reading you know things that are printing but my where my computer is is in front of me. I am behind my computer in a way manner of speaking, but if I looked at it from the computer's perspective, then I'm in front of the computer. So, um, if I thought about it in a more cardinal direction way, my computer is currently south of me, and I am north of it. So that kind of puts things better as far as where your orientation is. And, and that helps with like knowing might be able to get around and stuff to knowing your cardinal directions without having to think about them too hard. Because they're just ingrained in you. The compass there is a compass on iOS devices, like your iPhone, and it will work with voiceover. So that's one way you can, you can actually make a little game or have your kids make a little game that says that they walk around the house, they find something and they take notes that it's so many steps in this direction, or you're going to walk so far north, and then you're going to turn east and then you're going to Unknown Speaker and then you're going to step south for just two steps, and then you're going to turn back east, and then you will turn around all the way West and walk forward a little bit and see where you end up and kind of make themselves have a little maze while using the compass and see where they end up that, um, and then you can get into intermediary. Places like, you know, Northwest, southeast, that kind of stuff. Right? Sun cues. One thing, and we were just talking about this at the omm meeting, is to, if you can't, if you can't get out of your house very much. Um, to experience some cues while walking around and how the sun kind of moves as your body changes version, then you can step outside several times a day and see how the sun moves without you changing your body's position. So the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. And you can talk about those skills by experiencing them, instead of just saying it, it means so much more for kids to experience this stuff, and figure it out for themselves. And that will really connect it to their brain. That is how you you code you grow dendrites, that's a famous educator person says you don't grow dendrites from just being told something, you grow it by doing things. So if you go outside in the morning, and you talk about where the sun is, now, if you went outside my backyard in the morning, you would not feel the sun, it would be shiny. Um, but then if you came in the afternoon, then it would be sunny. And so based on that, you can figure out which way my house faces and, um, and kids can do that too after they've experienced it enough. And it might take a minute, you don't have to rush any kind of decision there. Um, but that will help them to really have that ingrained where the sun rises and where the sun sets and where your house is located and how it's, you know which direction it's facing. And that sort of thing. And that'll build that cardinal direction knowledge. Another game to play at home is battleship battleships really easy to adapt, you can get that box and just a little bit of I mean, I've used regular Braille paper and glue and adapted and just regular elmers glue and adapted a battleship game, because you just need letters and numbers. Um, I know that I've had some parents who use one of those little punchy ones, they come with like that you put the dymo tape in and then you punch out the Braille letters. And it's very easy to adapt. Um, and so it's based on a grid, and you can play live battleship if you have tiled floor. You know, and slip shades and of course people will be able to hear you so I've done that virtually, with people before. Like just for fun, like just say Oh, to what you know, well you wouldn't be playing battleship then you'd be walking forward so many tiles and walking over so many tiles and then in kind of like a big chessboard anyway, but battleship is kind of based on that like checkers or chess. And so you put your little ships on there. I think most people know how to play battleship but it's good for kids to to think about placement, and to be really methodical about moving across the grid. And it's also good for fine motor skills because they've put those little pieces inside those little holes. And so that's battleship and and then also they have to use a light touch because they don't want to knock over their ships. Then there's Twister, the blindfold Twister game is almost ready to go the out of the box, it comes with some little shades and but the board is not adapted, I have heard of some people who made the word adapted, but other people just wrote out all the combinations that were possible, and put them in Braille in a Ziploc bag. So like right hand squiggly line, they've got raised shapes on them. And so they brought out every single possible Unknown Speaker combination, and then they just drew them or you can just write out the color and put that in a bag. And you can ply you know, the the, or the color and I say colors, the texture, the texture and put that as in a Ziploc bag and then you can put the body part it sounds awful. But so Peter put your body parts in different bag and then you draw out one out of each bag, and then you know where to put your right hand or whatever. So that's Twister and twisters great for body awareness, and orientation, because trying to find the one that's the closest to you. Um, again, there's, there's tons of other ones. I couldn't put everything on here. But I didn't want to run out of time. But I did want to leave you guys with a couple of little thoughts. Because, you know, I cannot I guess. Um, so I want you to think about this, um, your eyes are not what makes decisions. Okay, so those of us who were sighted and who think that we're making this, but we're better at travel because our because we have the vision to do so that's not how you're making decisions, you're not making decisions with your eyes, they don't do anything But see, the brain does the the making of decisions. And the brain is an equal opportunity employer. It does not care where it gets information from, it just wants information and then will do with it when it needs to. So the cane for a child for a blind child will add input for the brain and we'll give it more information so that they can then make better decisions. Um, the further they can think away from their body the better they do. I always tell parents and I tell kids, you your cane cars with you everywhere you wear shoes, and even some places you don't. So I'm a waterpark, you know, because people are like, well, should I make my child use their cane in the house? Well, I mean, if you move your furniture around a lot, I mean sure. I guess if you have a really big house and you live in like the Taj Mahal done, please Yes, you might want to gain there. Um, but most of the time people are not using a cane in their own environment where they have things set up the way that they they do. But it is important to like if you're I always say some places you don't because some of my kids are gone. What about a waterpark? Well, yeah, you don't wear shoes at a waterpark, typically, but nobody's going to waterpark right now anyway, so that's not really it's kind of a moot point. But um, you still would need to have your cane with you like to get in a pool and things like that, because nothing is worse than walking into a pool before you intend to do. Unknown Speaker So, um, then Unknown Speaker you any activities Unknown Speaker that you do shouldn't to encourage cane, you should be fine. And they should encourage exploration, and it should be independent. Remember, there's no right. You know, there's no right way to do things. Everybody does things differently. That's what makes the world a really wonderful and beautiful place is that we're all different. Um, learning only happens through error. And this is just true. You don't learn anything by doing it perfectly. So allow your child the benefit of learning through action. And when school resumes, as I am certain it will eventually then encourage your school with that as well. One thing I would tell schools when I went to, to teach there and still do, um, is that this is a place Learning This is the place of education, do not deny this child the opportunity to learn from mistakes, just like you're letting everyone else here to, um, if they are not allowed to make mistakes and they're not allowed to fail a little bit, then they won't learn anything from it, they'll only learn to be dependent, they won't learn to be independent. Something I tell my kids all the time is practice does not make perfect, because there is no perfect practice does make proficient though. So you can get better at something by practicing, but you will never be perfect, perfect doesn't exist. Because I do have a lot of kids who get hung up on doing things, right. And I would say if you are a sighted person and you want to use shades, that's great, you should do that. I want you to understand that you should do something comfortable the first time before you start getting out into the world. Um, do something that I like to have a conversation with people when I put them under learning shades the first time. So that that way, they can kind of get used to wearing shades. Also, every parent teaches their child to move independently, and you are no different. So I know that you can write, I don't want people to be fearful that Oh, I like that practice does make permanent. Um and so you are like, I want parents to feel empowered to teach their children and don't think that you need any certain letters behind your name. To do that. All you need is mo M or D ad or guardian or grandma or aunt or whatever. That's all you need to be the teacher for your child. Take with that? Do you guys have any questions? I answered everybody's everything. Unknown Speaker Um, Unknown Speaker I have a question. Melissa? Yeah. Hi. Um, so, explain like, what are the different kinds of canes and what are the functions of each of them? Or just how do they work like different types of candles? What are the differences between canes in general? Unknown Speaker Well, there are different types of canes and there are different types of instructor. So I'll put it the simplest way. Um, so I am a structure discovery instructor I teach I have an in OMC with national orientation and mobility certification. Unknown Speaker We Unknown Speaker and and we use a straight white rigid cane with a metal tip. Now you can get that straight white rigid cane with a metal tip, also in a folding model, and off in a telescoping model. Um, there is a different type of certification, which is c o m s, and the columns instructors typically use either a straight cane or a folding cane, and they have different kinds of tips. So, a lot of what we would call common with, you know, traditional instructors are CMS comms instructors. And so, those canes will sometimes will be colored, but sometimes we'll have a red though they're, they're defined to me by the golf grip, and they have a red grip at the bottom. But our hands are entirely white. We also have that use different color cane. But the things the difference in our cane is that it got a metal tip, and we primarily use the metal Tim, I don't think there's any other tip. Unknown Speaker Oh, that's the only difference like it's just a metal tip. Unknown Speaker Well, in the end the lightness and flexibility of the rigid cane but the long white rigid cane, um, and I will say this and I'm not because I can't I'm not going to judge anybody. Different things. People right, I teach with that cane because I have found that it is lighter. It is more flexible, so it forgives. It's cheaper. So when when they're growing like weeds, then you can change that cane now it's free Actually, that's how cheap it is. every six months they'll send you a new one if you signed up for the white cane program. Um and and it gives a lot of good tackle most of these Most of the most successful blind people I know, that are excellent travelers and get around very independently, they all use and prefer the long white rigid cane. There are some who will have a spare cane that has a telescoping version, but very few use a one with a cord in it, which would be a folding cane. And that's because it cuts back on the feedback, that cord absorbs the feeling. Unknown Speaker Right. Right, sorry. So this metal can does it fold or is it a telescope? Or they both do they can in both ways? The the cane the NFB cane is can you know you can get one that is folding? Unknown Speaker You can get one to this telescope. But they are Unknown Speaker they're not metal. Unknown Speaker So, is it better to like what's the difference between this ladder fiberglass and metal? Like the metal the metal one is better or what Unknown Speaker I'm talking about the metal the metal is the tip that I was talking about the very end pain is metal. Oh, right. Sorry. shaft itself like the handle and everything that is fiberglass. Yeah, there are the other aluminum canes that are the ones that are like mvtec and, and other factors like that. They are metal they are heavier, because they are made of aluminum or graphite. Unknown Speaker I see. Unknown Speaker All right. Unknown Speaker Thank you so much. Unknown Speaker Oh, thank you. We have a few more minutes if there's any other questions. I don't remember which time time This one's over Unknown Speaker 45 minutes. Unknown Speaker comments. Unknown Speaker And I will try my very best to get well thank you, Sherry, I appreciate that. I will try my very best to get out this information because I do realize it was a lot and I have a tendency to just keep going on. And so like once I have like, oh when that would be a good game and oh, that would be a good game. Um, so you're feel free to email me. My email is k sounds at La te ch la tech.edu. I do work at the professional development and Research Institute on blindness at Louisiana Tech. And you will hear lots of probably that said to people on set around um we do have an orientation mobility program where we do train people so if you feel like this might be the kind of field you want to go into. We'll be happy to have you guys join us in Reston and so um, any anyway, please find me on the app or email me and connect with me if you have any questions. I think that's time. Unknown Speaker Awesome. Sounds like you hit out of the park, Kristen. Unknown Speaker I guess I told them everything they needed to know I Unknown Speaker was overwhelmed with information. Unknown Speaker It might be Transcribed by https://otter.ai