Unknown Speaker To know, and I do apologize if you are uncomfortable the recording is so that people who can't make it to this session are able to hear it later. And so we are going to start recording and Danielle is going to do that now. And I was going to make that announcement. And I forgot. Okay, so, um you know, going back to childhood I, I sort of knew, or thought that I knew most things. And when I was little, if I didn't know something I asked, or Luckily, people told me, and a lot of these things revolved around sort of visual type things. So one is nodding and shaking my head. When I was really little. When I when I said, Yes, I would usually nod my head, but it wasn't just Yes, it was. Yeah. And then somebody finally told me, no, you don't really do it that way. Most of the time, when people do it, they do it very gently. And they just sort of nod their head very slowly kind of up and down just a little bit. You don't need to move your whole head and your whole neck, and you don't need to do it more than a couple times. Same thing with shaking my head, I would shake it very much from side to side to side to side to side until somebody said no, you know, that's not how we do it. You just shake it a little bit? No. And even that, yes and no, what is nodding? What is shaking the head? You know, somebody had to tell me that. I remember being in fourth or fifth grade. And my friend said, Do thumbs up. And I was like, do thumbs up? What do you mean, I'd heard that term, but I had no idea how to do thumbs up. So she showed me this is how you do thumbs up. Even things that are a little more naughty, not that you should encourage your children to to put up their middle fingers by any stretch of the imagination. But they should definitely know that that is a finger that in our society is equated with something not very nice, so that they don't do it accidentally. And, you know, if they're old enough, you should probably show them sort of how it's usually done. Not that you want them to do it, but you want them to have that frame of reference, because it's important to have those frames of reference. This was really brought home to me when I was on a not on a jury. But I was Andre duty. And the judge asked us to raise our right hand. And this was something that I had heard for years, and had just never thought to ask, oh, my goodness, what does this mean? Now I assumed it meant POM up. I assumed it didn't just mean raising it up above my head like I would in school if I had a question. I mean, there were things that I sort of knew. But I was really uncomfortable during the time that I was raising my right hand because I thought oh my gosh, I hope I'm doing this right. And that was not a time that I could ask the person next to me, excuse me, how do I raise my right hand, because it was just something that in society, people expect people to know. Or a person that is sighted can look around and see what everybody else is doing. And if they've never done it before, they can copy that motion, or that movement. Another one that I've never gotten very good at is waving Hello, or waving goodbye. I tend to use more of my whole hand I've been told no, you just kind of use your wrist. But again, these are all things that people just take advantage of and, and do everyday without thinking. But while you're doing them, and when you're doing them, please make sure that you're keeping your blind child in mind. Because as he or she grows, he or she needs to know all those things. And B needs to be able to do those things. So that they don't feel or he or she does not feel uncomfortable. And especially if he or she doesn't have good friends that that he or she can ask I was really lucky. You know, as far as dancing goes. I remember seventh and eighth grade, there were school dances. And Unknown Speaker I kind of knew how to dance fast sort of. I didn't really know exactly how people slow danced. And so I asked a friend of mine, Hey, can you like what do people do? And so she actually showed me a couple waves and talked about how in movies, you know, people would either do The hand on the waist or sometimes they would just do hands on the shoulder. And then they would sort of giggle and like, put their heads down a little bit. And she was really descriptive. And she was really good at that. And I was very, very lucky to have her in my life and to have her Teach me because by the time I was seventh and eighth grade, I didn't want to ask my mom, I didn't want to ask my dad, I didn't really want to ask any other adult. I think that's really why it's very, very important for your children to have as many adults and as many friends and as many blind mentors in their lives as possible. It takes a village to raise a child, and I never understood that as well as I do now that I have three children of my own. Because I know right now, they're 1310, and eight. And right now, for the most part, they still kind of things kind of revolve around me, when they have a question, they come to me, particularly the girls, my son, you know, he's getting to be a teenager. And so it's getting a little bit different. And but he does go to his dad, sometimes with questions, which is great. Um, but I know that at some point, I'm not going to be the person that they want to go to. And so from the time they've been very little, I've really tried to surround them with as many really good people as I can. Because I feel like if they don't want to come to me and ask me a question, and hopefully they can come to another adult, particularly my daughters who are blind, another blind adult, and ask these questions, because I might not always have all the answers anyway. Or, you know, they should just have the right to go somewhere else if they don't want to come to me. Um, I guess the other thing that I want to talk about two things, and then I am going to open up for questions, because I really want to know what all of you want to know. But as far as teaching children, these gestures, explaining to them kind of when they're used, the earlier you can start to do this, the younger they are, the better it is. Number one, as they get older, again, they're not going to want to learn from you. And it might be harder and harder. Number two, they'll have more of those experiences where they feel like everybody else is doing something and knows how to do it. And they're left behind, they don't know how to do it. And so that's really important. And particularly with dances, think about preschool, pre pandemic, you know, it's pretty unfortunate, but even even now with preschoolers going virtual, it's so important. There are so many dances that kids do in the preschool classroom. And there's so many learning opportunities for those dances, you can work on so many skills. So things like the Hokey Pokey, put your right arm in, you put your right arm out, making sure that your child is comfortable with that. And using it as that teaching opportunity not just to teach a dance, but to teach left and right and in and out and have fun at the same time. That's so important. And if you teach that at home, that means that in the classroom, if the class does the Hokey Pokey, your child will think, Oh, I know how to do that this is fun. And they won't approach it with dread. Oh, my gosh, I don't, what are they doing? I don't know what they're doing. And that's, that's a really uncomfortable place to be even for a real little child, especially for a really little child because they might not have that language to express, hey, I don't really know how to do this. And I'm not comfortable with this right now. So I would really suggest that you do one of two things. Make sure that you know what types of dances are going to be done in your child's preschool either virtually, or Unknown Speaker if they are going to go back to school in the fall for real school, and work on the summer, all those kinds of dances so that your child has that leg up. If you can't do that, or you don't have enough time, or there's new dances all the time, because schools often now use something called brainpop, which has all sorts of videos that they add and they you know, they have kind of their favorites when they add different ones. That could be a really good place for a paraprofessional, maybe just for that time or maybe a teacher of blind students. Part of the IEP might be teaching those dances and those movements because again, that's just really going to help Your child be more comfortable and really feel like they're part of the class and not feel like they're isolated because they just don't know what's going on. At at this time, or you know, at the time where, where they're dancing, making sure that the teacher if there are dances that are going to be, you know, demonstrated making sure that the teacher gives really good verbal directions for all the kids, not just saying, Okay, well, now you do this. And now you do that, but actually showing or talking, okay, now you put your hands up above your head, and then you clap three times. Or now you're going to turn around, or now you're going to kneel down on one knee, whatever it is, so that again, your child can follow it. The other great thing is if your child knows what to do in the dances, he or she could really be a leader for his or her sighted peers, and they could watch your blind child and learn how to do the dance from your blind child. And that's, that's powerful. That's a really powerful thing. And I think that's a really important thing. And then the sighted peers also think, Oh, she knows the Hokey Pokey just like me, she's not that different. Maybe she can't see that well, but she can hokey pokey. So those are the things that I think of, um, there was one other thing that is, has left my mind. Oh, I would say too, and this actually was probably talked about in one of our earlier workshops, which was, I like to move it and it was all about movement for young blind children. But I think along with dance and common gestures, making sure that your child is comfortable with common exercises, jumping jacks, hopping on one foot jumping, galloping, skipping, running, those are all things that they're going to do in school, and the more that you can work with them, and the earlier you can work with them, the better it will be, because then they'll just know when a teacher says do five jumping jacks, they'll be able to do those five jumping jacks, just like every other kid. So I'm going to stop, I would love to hear what all of you want to know, if you do have a question, please raise your hand, there's several ways to do that. If you're calling in on an old fashioned telephone, you press star nine, and that will raise your hand. If you are on a computer, you can hit alt y a Windows machine, you can hit alt y, and that will raise your hand. If you're on a phone in the zoom app, you can go into the more kind of at the bottom, I believe, and that will show you your hand raised button. And finally, if you're on a Mac, I was told it's option y to raise your hand. You can also put a chat in the chat box. And certainly, Danielle, who is our host, and if Jackie has joined us as our co host, one of them can certainly read the chat messages as well. So do we have any questions? Unknown Speaker Yes, Ashley moon has a question. Great. Unknown Speaker Can you unmute Ashley or can Ashley? Yes. Unknown Speaker Hi, are you? Unknown Speaker I'm great. I'm Unknown Speaker so Hi, I'm a youth coordinator for savvy Services for the Blind in Arizona. So I work with a lot of blind kids. And I have an 18 month old daughter who's also blind. So my question was just talking about these social gestures. And dances can sometimes make children uncomfortable or embarrassed because they realize that they don't know them and they get really shy and then they just kind of think that, you know, they they look silly, if they don't know it, or they just kind of want to do something else because they're embarrassed. So do you have any tips for kind of bringing up the conversation without making them feel uncomfortable? Unknown Speaker So you're talking older, I'm assuming like, if you're the youth coordinator, I'm guessing teenage kind of, um, Unknown Speaker we have all ages, but I'll either I'm sure you know that mostly the teenagers are the ones that get embarrassed. Unknown Speaker Yes, absolutely. So I would say the best thing is to just have seminars and to just say, okay, we're all going to learn these dances. And you know, just don't even say like, do you know how to already or you can you can say if you know how already, you can show other people or you can talk about or having a couple blind people, mentors or other students in the seminar, sort of give their own descriptions of how they dance or how they learn to dance. That's really helpful. And again, that just goes back to the earlier you can teach. So maybe maybe, oh, my light bulb just went off. Maybe if you have youth of all ages, maybe the teens learn the dances and the reason they learn them is because then they're going to show them littler kids, yeah, might be a really nice way because that gives the teens a chance to give back. And that's really important for all kids and all, especially, especially teenagers. And, you know, I think, I think it's also just important. I think two things, I think it's really important to tell teens. And I mean, of course, if you're a teenager, or even if you're an adult, sometimes, you know, you're self conscious about everything. Quite honestly, right now I have this piece of hair that is driving me nuts, and I feel like oh, my gosh, everybody is looking at this piece of hair. And that's, I think, how it is to be a teenager, right. And so when you're dancing, and that's kind of what happened to me, I for a long time would dance, you know, a lot when I was a kid, and, you know, would dance at weddings and things. And then all of a sudden, I just started getting very self conscious. And like, you can't look around to see how other people look. It reminds me a little bit of my, my mom, when we were on a cruise, and she wasn't going to put on her bathing suit. And then she looked at a few people. And she said, I don't have anything to worry about my bathing suit. And I think it's really important. If you're a sighted person, you have that kind of information to share. Not that you want to call anybody out and say like, Oh my gosh, they look ridiculous, but like, just letting blind kids know, or even blind adults, no, like, Hey, you dance fine, or there are people that everybody has different rhythmic abilities. And some people are really good dancers, and some people aren't. But it's kind of like singing, you know, if you really want to sing, sing, if you really want to dance dance. I think sometimes as blind people, we just feel like, we're the only one that's uncomfortable, or we're the only one that's kind of inhibited in our movements. And that's probably not the case. But we don't always again, have those really good friends that will kind of tell us the truth. Or tell us the truth and help us get better. Like you know, yet you don't you look a little different when you dance because you bounce a lot. But maybe you can move more side to side instead of up and down. Like that's really good. constructive criticism, I guess? And also, you know, no, you look just exactly like that person over there. So I think I think it's all those kinds of things that people really do get self conscious. Partly, I think, because we're worried that other people are just watching us and thinking, Oh, my gosh, they're not doing it, right. But I think the more that you can get used to sort of feel more comfortable in general, to make it normal by having everybody learn. And if, if you do already know it to have you, you know, do the demonstrations for other youth, and then also to have the youth teach the younger ones that can be really powerful. Awesome, thank you. Thank you. Unknown Speaker Other questions? Unknown Speaker There's not a question, but there's a chat. Okay. Um, she stated, but Baba stated, I cannot overstate the importance of all that is being discussed gestures, body language dancing, because it might seem that academic success is more important than social skills. And the latter can be thought about later. The latter is genuinely important in real life. Unknown Speaker Oh my gosh, and that body language, I didn't even get to that. But that is such a good point. It is so important that your children learn to look at someone when they're talking to them, that your children learn to keep their head up, to keep their eyes open if they can, that they're not digging their hands in their eyes or rocking back and forth. Even you know, as you're, you know, a young lady sitting with your legs crossed if you're wearing a dress, so that, you know you're not showing I mean, again, it's it's all those things that you just sort of take for granted. And your blind child because they can't just look around and see other people doing them. They really do need to be talked to and taught and again, that's why it's really important to have other adults that are on board. personal space is another one that is huge. And I have seen this so often that blind kids, especially young ones, not not always young one, sometimes ones that are older, will come up and want to be right Next to me. And again, they're just trying to figure out where I am. They're, they're trying to figure out a lot of things. What happens though often is teachers and other people well, meaning people in their lives, often kind of give them a pass, oh, they're blind, they don't know where I am, they need to be close to me so that they can see me or they need to touch me so that they know where I am. And all that might be true. But we're, it's okay for three or four year olds, maybe to do some of those things, it gets more and more and more uncomfortable, the older the child gets, think how you'd feel if the 15 or 16 year old, particularly one maybe have the opposite gender, maybe that matters to you, maybe it doesn't, but you know, if somebody is very close to you, and of course, as they get taller, their hands can reach higher, and you know, those things just become very uncomfortable very quickly. And so I think it's really important to make sure that you talk to your child about personal space, about asking permission to touch others. If somebody really likes my dress and wants to touch it, I have usually no problem at all. With that, I just want to be asked, just like you would want to be asked. And just making sure that other people in your child's life doesn't just don't just say, oh, they're just cute, they're fine, you know that they have those same rules surrounding, you know, you step back, we're in a bubble, however you want to however you want to kind of teach that lesson, I think it's really important to do those things and make sure that that personal space topic gets touched on. The other thing that goes right along with that that is so important is the fact that so often, our children touch and grab, because they are so often touched and grabbed and pushed and pulled without permission. And it is essential that you teach your young blind child in a polite way, but in a firm way that they can say know that their body truly belongs to them that just because they're blind doesn't mean that somebody can come up and just say, okay, we're going now and grab them. That's not okay. I'm a blind adult, I get grabbed before COVID COVID. Luckily, now, I mean, that might be one somewhat nice thing about it, people are a little less likely to touch other people just in general. But so often as an adult, I would get touched, or padded, or handheld, literally. And I didn't want that touch or that Pat, or that hand holding. And I think it's incredibly important to teach kids when they were little when I was little, I was taught Oh, they're just trying to help you. They're just being nice. You don't say anything. Unknown Speaker And I know, every culture and every family feels differently about this. But to me, I just feel like it's so important that our blind kids have that voice and are given that voice to say, Can I please take your arm for No, I can get to the office all by myself. Thank you very much. I know where I'm going. I don't need any help right now. Or could could I feel your hands instead of you putting your hands on top of my hand? You know, those are really good things that that kids should learn and should be able to express themselves with. So, okay, so we have Serena. Unknown Speaker Okay. And then Juliet. Okay, Unknown Speaker great. Traver did have her hand up, but Unknown Speaker she lowered it. So she lowered it. Okay. All right. So Serena, go ahead. Unknown Speaker Okay, um, I was curious. Um, the times when I have danced I have done without my cane. I'm curious. What do you think about that? And second of all, what do you do when they want to go off the dance floor and go back to your table or go? Unknown Speaker Oh, my gosh, that is a fantastic question. So I have done it a few different ways. This is one time to me where a telescoping telescopic cane or possibly even a shorter just kind of like identify type cane, not that that would be what I would use to get to the venue where I'm dancing, but something that's shorter that you can kind of hold on to while you dance or tuck somewhere or ask your date. If you are a female and don't have pockets, maybe your date could tuck it in a pocket or something like that. That would be something that would be very good to have. I do think that dancing without a cane is Fine, I think if you want to dance with a cane, I think that's also fine. But I think for me, I would want my cane with me. But I generally do have a folding cane of some type. So that I can kind of hold it, even if it's just under an arm. And it's kind of awkward. Once in a while, I have put my cane like, had had my table, right off the dance floor and maybe had some kind of an audio cue that were, you know, kind of where my table was, and gone on the dance floor with my partner. And then, you know, we've been able to find the table afterward. Or if I have friends at the table, and they can call out to me afterward. But that makes me more uncomfortable. I would rather have my cane with me. But it's not always, you know, nice to hold it. So that's a really, really good question. Unknown Speaker Thanks for my bet at the voting can next time tell ya? Unknown Speaker Absolutely. Unknown Speaker All right now I'm unmuted I am Juliet. I wanted to say we also have to teach them a few other things. When people are looking at them, they're supposed to, I mean, and talking to them, they have to look at the person who's talking to them, but also when you're speaking to them, when he is speaking to other people. He needs to look at them also, especially now that so many people are wearing masks, and it's all muffled. And oh, no, people just aren't going to hear him if he doesn't talk more clearly. Unknown Speaker No, I think that's that's exactly right. And in a classroom, especially if the teacher is talking kind of, you know, having your eyes toward the teacher. And oftentimes teachers will even say, you know, 123 eyes on me and the kids will say, one, two eyes on you or whatever. And for me, all that meant was I need to make sure that I'm looking in the direction of the teachers voice and not moving in wiggling and and that type of thing. I think, yeah, Unknown Speaker there really can focus Unknown Speaker exactly, Unknown Speaker just exactly wiggling around or whatever. He had to be taught. He's still getting, he's still trying to learn to close his blinds in the morning before he gets the rest. So I'm gonna have to move him to a bedroom downstairs, I think because he, with his light perception. He likes to keep the blinds open, so he can see the sunrise and know when it's not time to get up if it's still dark outside. Right. But then I'm like, but you can't do that. Because you're right by the street. You have to close your blinds first. Yeah, Unknown Speaker yeah, no, that's a really, really good point. And I think the other one is just like you were saying, I mean, that that brings up that you know, just because you can't see other people. They do. Oh, he Yeah, he doesn't. And you can see him usually. Right. And right. No, and and it's, it's a good thing to teach that. Although I do know that for a while. I just thought everybody was watching me. And that's kind of created, you know, some discomfort. I have to remind myself sometimes that, you know, not everybody is watching me 24 seven, I'm just not all that interesting. Yeah, I think often we are watched, because, you know, we do have the cane or we do have a guide dog or we do whatever it is. But again, not everybody watches all the time, either. But it is really important. You know, that's kind of, you know, you don't pick your nose, you don't you know, just all those kinds of things that that you would want to teach and and again, parents all over the universe are teaching their sighted kids these things too. But it's really important that our blind kids learn them. Unknown Speaker Okay, I have a Unknown Speaker chat message from ife. They said, What about STEM behaviors head swing? How do you talk to your child about that? Unknown Speaker That is a great question. Again, the younger you can start those conversations, the better it is. Oftentimes, so I think it depends a little bit trying to figure out when the stem behaviors happen, can be really good. Is it because they're bored or looking for something else to do and if that's the case, and if you're somewhere where they can play with a toy or you know, can do some kind of an activity. Trying to get them involved in that activity might cut down on some of those behaviors, even giving your child something to fidget with in their hands. A stressful little balloon filled with filled with playdough or sand Or flour, or you know, any kind of anything that they can really squeeze and sort of just have some of that stimulation in a different way. Those things can be important. And sometimes it's having a key word, or a signal. Maybe you just tap them on the shoulder real gently, or maybe you say, I don't know, you know, head, or, or, you know, big boy or big girl, I mean, you could even start talking depending on how old they are, you know, if they're two or three, you might talk about, well, you know, you did that more when you were little, like more of a baby. And now you want to be a girl. And Big Girls, you know, are big boys, they keep their heads nice and still when they talk. So I think it's a kind of a combination of giving them alternatives and trying to figure out, particularly if they're really nervous, sometimes that's just a really nervous habit. Also, it can be boredom, or it can be nervous. So if they're nervous, giving them other things to do with their hands or other things to do with their feet or breathing exercises that they can do to kind of help calm some of that nervous energy. Even if it's just, you know, tapping their foot, maybe not loudly, but I mean, that's a little bit more socially acceptable than moving the head or rocking back and forth would be, I think the other thing is, again, making sure that everybody's on board and as many people as possible school daycare home, they're getting the same kind of cues and having those same discussions. And again, that's where having other people in your child's life is really important that are on the same page with you. Because sometimes it doesn't matter how many times you say it, it might just click when it comes from somebody else, either a peer or a teacher that they love, or a favorite aunt or grandmother or whatever else, you know, whoever else it is, and you might never know. But I know for me as a mom, sometimes it doesn't matter how many times I've said something, all of a sudden, when Miss Harris says it, it's like, oh, well, I'm gonna do this now. Because Miss Harris told me I should, I think, was Miss Harris, like five months ago, when I wanted you to do this thing. So I think those are all really important things to keep in mind. Unknown Speaker All right, next up, Unknown Speaker we've got bad yeah. Unknown Speaker Hello, my audible? Unknown Speaker Yes, how are you? Unknown Speaker I'm good. As a blind youngster, I'm gonna do specific questions about operating in a group setting. Firstly, when you have, let's say, three people in a row, you're the person sitting in the center, and there is someone to your left and someone to write, or maybe someone in addition, behind us well, so in that group conversation, when multiple people are speaking, how do you constantly move to look at the speaker at that particular point in time to just move your neck to move your whole body? Or do you just try to preserve only some directionality as opposed to trying to stay at power all the time? and ultimate second question is well, how do you best operate in dynamic group settings? wherein, particularly if there are unknown people, people constantly shifting seats, places not even sitting standing moving around? That can get a bit disorientating? Unknown Speaker Yeah, absolutely. So those are two really good questions. So to me, I would say that just moving your your neck and kind of your head to look at the person who's talking, if you're is is good, if you're really kind of intent on what they're saying, you might naturally sort of lean more, or turn your whole body more toward them, because you're really sort of queuing in on them. And that happens sometimes, if someone's behind you, I think the best thing would be to actually turn around and invite them to come and sit with you. Because it's, it's uncomfortable, I would think even for them to kind of be behind, you're not able to hear them as well. They're not gonna be able to hear you they're not able to see your face. And so really inviting that person, hey, if you want to be a part of our conversation, you know, can you come in and sit, you know, across the monster be part of our table? Or should we turn around to be with you? So that that can kind of be because it's really uncomfortable. I mean, you can turn your neck around, but that's pretty uncomfortable for for the majority of the time. As for your second question, I mean, that is that is such a tough place to be. Definitely. When you are if you have younger children, really talking to their teachers, their classmates even about if you want to go somewhere else or you want to end a conversation, please let the blind person know or even Showing your child or helping your child develop the language. So they can say that for themselves, because there is nothing more embarrassing than talking to somebody that has left. And again, it's it's just something that happens sometimes and even very well meaning people who are some of my best friends will just forget and walk away, they'll see something else, or they'll be thinking about something else. But that is such an embarrassing thing. And it's okay to ask if you're not sure if somebody moved. Hey, excuse me, are you still there? I can't, I can't tell I can't see you. Um, you know, that's a completely appropriate question. But really, as much as possible, just reminding people, and that might be really uncomfortable, especially if you first meet them. But you know, just Hey, if you're gonna go, especially if it's a really loud place, can you just let me know that you're going so that I don't talk to you when you're not there? Unknown Speaker Like, thank you. Unknown Speaker Thank you. Great questions. Unknown Speaker Next up, we Unknown Speaker have Traver. Unknown Speaker Hi, triva. Um, I, well, I know what I say to people, but I just want to get your feedback on. Unknown Speaker I have questions about like, how do you deal with the loud music and the audio like in a dance situation, it's so overwhelming. And I kind of feel the same way. But for me, I'm just like, just go do it anyway, you need to experience this. But that is not always something that teenagers will listen to Unknown Speaker a better suggestion. Oh, and that is such that is, oh my gosh, okay, so talk about like, thinking back to high school and middle school. And thinking back to cane versus no cane. I used to go with no cane all the time to places like that with friends. And I just thought, Well, my friends will, you know, they'll just be there. And there were a couple times. And I, the reason I was doing that, too is I don't want to look different. I have this cane, I'm going to look different, I'm going to look weird. So I'm going to leave it at home and I won't look weird. Well, then it was all well and good until my friend saw other friends across the room. And again, not to be mean. But just left because she wanted to see her other friends. I had no idea where she was, the music was so loud, that I couldn't get my bearings. And I am sure I looked much weirder. Walking with my hands straight out in front of myself, because I didn't have my cane than I would have had I just had my cane and been able to move confidently. So I think that's the first thing to talk to, especially teens about that, you know, if you're going to be in allowed place, especially make sure you have a cane because that's just going to help you you're going to need as many of your available ways of getting information because your big way, which is your ears isn't probably going to work as well as you'd like it to. If a teenager really doesn't want to have that experience, or go to that dance, maybe having letting him or her have a smaller party at his or her house where there's dancing, and they can kind of control the volume of the music and, and kind of have that control that might help. And that might even get them more comfortable with Oh, that was actually really fun. I actually really liked it. And maybe I do want to go to a club some time. Or maybe I really do want to go to a place where there's louder music and more ways to dance. And then I guess the other thing would just be having those discussions with whoever the teenager goes with. That's for me showing up at a club or a dance by myself. I don't think I can't imagine. I can't imagine doing it. I really can't. That's just me. So, if I'm going with other people, just having those conversations beforehand, like hey, can we have a meeting place? Um, you know, now with cell phones, it's a little bit different. You might be able to text maybe maybe you can hear that maybe you can't I don't know. But I think the meeting place the what are we going to do? Or how are we going to if we are going to go you know, is it okay? If I take your arm when we're walking because it's going to be really loud. Like, I'll have my cane with me. But can I take your arm also just so we can stay together? Kind of having those conversations and those plans beforehand can be really, really important because I think that can it can if you don't and you do get separated and you're not really prepared for it. I know for me that led to feelings of just really powerlessness and helplessness and just not having a good time at all. And For a long time not even really wanting to go to dances because I was just worried that they were going to end up like that. So I think just having that control, having those conversations is is really important. And again, not every teenager is going to like that dance experience and, and giving them permission that that's okay. Giving them the knowledge that they can do it if they want to. And there are ways to do it. That's important. But if they ultimately decide No, that's just not for me. Respecting that. Also, I think there's a big difference between I could do this if I wanted to, I don't want to and I don't think I can do this because I'm blind. I think those are two very different conversations. And so I think it's just really important to kind of have those conversations. Unknown Speaker Traver Are you are you done asking your question? Yeah. Unknown Speaker Thank you so much. Unknown Speaker No problem. Thank you. Unknown Speaker Next up, Unknown Speaker Angel had a question. So Unknown Speaker I'm going to ask her to unmute herself. Okay. Unknown Speaker Great. Unknown Speaker Hello, Unknown Speaker Angel. Unknown Speaker Oh, there she is. Oh, there we go. Hello, Angel, are Unknown Speaker you they're Unknown Speaker having trouble hearing you? If you want to put your question in the chat. We can also do it that way. What time is it? By the way? I don't have a good clock is 445. Oh, perfect. Okay, great. So we do have some more time our family game night is at five o'clock. Feel free to join us for that. But certainly if there are a couple more questions, I can certainly take a couple more. Unknown Speaker I do not see any other questions. Unknown Speaker Okay. Unknown Speaker Well, thank you all for joining this session, I hope. I mean, I know this was very quick and kind of a down and dirty, very fast paced. Please feel free to contact me, I'm going to give you my phone number and my email. And maybe Danielle can put those in the chat box for everybody so that you have them. My email is Melissa MELI ss a, one more letter A for my middle initial. And then riccobono Ri, cc obono@gmail.com. And my cell number where I can also get texts is 443-803-0266. Now I certainly won't answer in the dead of night, but feel free to send me a text and I'd be happy to get back to you, especially this week. I'm trying to look at emails every day. But my text is probably the you know, if you have a really burning question, that's probably the best way to get ahold of me this week. I really appreciated all the great questions. Thank you for being a part of this workshop. And I hope that this kind of just demystified some of the things I guess my big takeaway, or my big takeaway for you is, think about the gestures that you use every day. And figure out whether your blind child knows how to do those gestures and knows what they mean. Think about when you read books, that's another place where gestures are talked about a lot. And if your child has a question about a gesture in a book, or what they reading in a book, make sure that you kind of take that time when you can to answer that question. And then, you know, the other thing is just be as descriptive as you can. use as many words as you can to describe what you mean. And then have your child show you and don't be afraid to say okay, that's really close. But usually you relax your fingers just a little bit more, or you curve your fingers just a little bit more in and kind of have your child practice. Maybe that could even be something that you would do, you know, maybe you have a gesture of the week, or a gesture of the day and you have your child practice that a few times during that day. And then you know, if it comes up in conversation or it comes up sometime like oh, this would be the perfect time to do your thumbs up. You know, show everybody thumbs up or high five or whatever it is. Those can be really motivating ways particularly for kids that are littler, of course as they as kids get older, that becomes a little bit more difficult. But if you really feel like your child doesn't know a lot of gestures, the quicker you can kind of start helping them learn them. The better it's gonna be. So thank you all. Thank you, Daniel for co hosting with me and I hope to see a lot of you at our other events around the convention this week. Unknown Speaker You're quite welcome. Transcribed by https://otter.ai