Unknown Speaker And Jeff, if you see hands raised that Steve and I missed during the presentation, feel free to jump in if you would Unknown Speaker absolutely Unknown Speaker want to steal jeans Thunder as host, but I do want to make sure we get started. So I may have no choice. I wear both hats. So hi Corbett O'Connor, I'm on the board of the national organization of parents of blind children and glad that you're able to join us, I want to let you know that our session today is being recorded. So if you don't wish to be recorded, either stay muted, or her, we'll do our best to make the session have a recording available, not quite sure how or if we're gonna be able to do that. But we certainly will do our best. And, Steve, I hope it's alright with you. I didn't check with you ahead of time. But if folks would like, would love to have your questions along the way, drop them in the chat, raise your hand. If you're on the phone, it's star nine to raise your hand or Alt y on the computer or in the participants panel of the phone apps. bottom left corner above the invite button is a raise hand. So without further ado, maybe Steve, do you want to give a quick intro of yourself? Sure. Unknown Speaker Can everybody hear me all right? Yep. All right. So I am Steve Decker. I'm a lead accessibility consultant for target.com. I live in Brooklyn Park, Minnesota, I've got three kids. And my wife, my kids are eight, five and two. So quite busy with that. And we just added a new puppy to the mix. Yeah, I've been blind my entire life. Born and raised in Iowa. And before coming to target, I worked at blind Incorporated, among other places, one of our NFB training centers. Unknown Speaker Great. And so corbeau Connor, I'll switch hats. Hey, I'm a accessibility testing operations manager at Site improves, I work in digital accessibility just like Steve though, different side of town, different company, but have been since I think my 14th convention. So it's been a long time here. And certainly being raised as a blind kid. I had a lot of great opportunities, but learning Braille and, you know, was was not one of them great skills in cane travel, I had a lot of exposure with, you know, getting out into the work world and self advocacy. I think that's what we really want to touch on today is how some of these first jobs that we held. And I look forward to Steve telling you a little about his in just a moment really helped to help us. And I want to make sure that we're answering your questions as well. And we want to be mindful that a lot of you may be wondering how to get your kiddos. Well, I'm nothing called kiddos if they're looking at summer jobs, but how to get your family involved in summer employment and maybe some ways that you as a parent can support them without doing it for them. And maybe some ways that you can also push them toward opportunities. Given that we know that the accessibility of so much of what people do in the work world is not quite where we want it to be. But I think there's some some neat opportunities we have to to overcome that. Steve, do you want to maybe give us a quick Well, not quick, but you want to take a few minutes and give us a sense of your your first summer jobs and what that was like for you? Sure. So Unknown Speaker my first summer job main summer job was working actually 35 hours a week in the cafeteria of a meatpacking plants. It was through a work experience program for blind kids, teenagers set up by the state of Iowa. And and my experience was maybe a little unique in that we actually lived in a college dorm setting for six weeks, which is way cooler than most people's first jobs. But I had to, you know, I took paratransit to get to the meatpacking plant had to figure my way through the meatpacking plant, about 1500 people worked there at any one time and to the cafeteria, you know there were like at school lunchroom tables, just a huge cafeteria. I had I had a job coach for a very short amount of time when I started who helped me in certain ways figure out how to do certain things like serving french fries on a food line, but also helped me when I wasn't always quite forceful enough or capable enough at advocating for myself with other staff who may have wanted to, you know, just do things for me or thinking things are dangerous or not always have the highest expectations. So for me, though, I mean, my first job, you know, I bussed tables, I did dishes, a little bit of food prep and things like that as well. You know, and it wasn't perfect. But for instance, I would advocate I think for myself a lot more now, you know, knowing what I know now as an older adult. But, but it was really great to have money to spend, as I chose to spend it. That was that was really empowering. Especially because you don't always get that as much as you get older as an adult, when you have more obligations. I think that's one of the biggest benefits, there's just a huge sense of empowerment also, though, at getting to work doing a job. You know, having people tell you that you're making them look bad, because you're cleaning the tables to Well, yeah, I don't know, that's, that's kind of a bit of my, a bit about my, my job, I can go into more detail. But it's kind of that in an overview, I will say. It gave me a lot of kind of opened my eyes to the experiences of others, you know, there, there were a lot of people who were, you know, lower income, maybe from a different social class and didn't have the privileges that I did, actually, even as a blind kid. And, and I'm just glad to have that opportunity, you know, to see how how, what life is like for other people, I think a lot of people get that in their first summer jobs. And I guess the final thing I would say, before moving on is that it taught me a lot of hard skills like navigating, you know, big open areas while pulling a trash cart. Things that may not seem relevant, if you're not a janitor, but if you ever clean up after a potluck at work, or want to be seen as able to contribute to something in the work, you know, in your community, organizations, churches, whatever. Having some of those skills is really important. And I think even having skills to start at an entry level job is really important. You know, I I've taught blind people for years before working at Target and people have goals and dreams, you know, they want to be lawyers or teachers or whatever. And that's really great. But everybody does have to start somewhere, you know, climbing the ladder of success, so to speak. It's really hard to get someone to lift you you know, several rungs up, usually you have to start climbing the ladder at the bottom. And having skills to do that having skills to do the the dirty jobs or the jobs that are less desirable. Because you know, you're the entry level and you're the intern or you know, the most junior employee, I think is really valuable. Unknown Speaker Guys, we actually do have a handbrake is it's one of the callers their last digit is 876 if you guys want to take the question. Unknown Speaker Hi, this is Chris Jones. I'm in sudra, Willy Washington. And I'm an old I am 67 and blind all my life. I basically wanted to be on your session because I think the idea of this is so valuable. I went to high school, I am white by red, whatever you want to call it. ethnicity, and I integrated a high school in Winter Park, Florida near Orlando. I was the first blind kid to graduate from there in June of 1970. So I've been down that road for a bit. What's your Unknown Speaker question? Unknown Speaker Well, it's not really a question as much as it's an observation. I'm not my first job was as a Unknown Speaker kid even think that it was it was like I worked at a film processing place in Orlando processing cameras. And my parents lived in Luna Park. So my dad basically took me back and forth from work to home is kind of how that was and so I was Learn to supply stuff he saw an ad or something about this company. And as it turned out, a girl that I had known from having been at the Florida School for the Blind, a while ago was working there full time. And so I did that as a summer job. Initially, and and so, you know, it wasn't a hard work, it wasn't real difficult, it was kind of like my blindness was almost an advantage in that particular situation. I moved on to do to do actually become a darkroom tech for a while at a hospital and then and actually, for quite a while, played piano at a larger hotel restaurant in Cheyenne, Wyoming for several months. And, and, you know, moved on and did some other more professional stuff. I got a degree in social work and, and actually, my last job that I retired from was I worked as a Student Disability specialist at clover Park Technical College in Lakewood near Tacoma, Washington. And so I did that. But Unknown Speaker today, thanks for thanks for calling. Unknown Speaker I just wanted to share Unknown Speaker it. You know, I think I think one of the things, Steve, that you mentioned, that I thought was really interesting, was the idea that, you know, some of your other co workers were making this point that, you know, you were cleaning tables better than them. And I wonder, you know, to what do you attribute that? Unknown Speaker I think it was. It may it's, it's possible that, you know, some of it's just amazement that a blind person could clean tables. I was a little bored. Because especially after things weren't that busy, you know, I literally had nothing else to do. And so it kind of focuses the mind a little bit to work in a grid pattern from table to table. But I certainly think that being a Braille reader, since the age of three really honed my tactile sense of feeling dirt on the tables, and so I did probably clean them very well. Yeah, that's, that's what I would think. Unknown Speaker That's interesting. I've, I've noticed that as, as we've had other we've gone into, have other people sometimes, you know, give our house clean. And the first thing that briley and I will do is go touch the counters and go No, I've done Yes. Right. Exactly. And but I'm sure to a sighted person is perfectly fine. You know, I think too, you know, when you when you mentioned, you know, some of the work that you were doing? Were you looking Steve for a job that you knew as a, as a blind person you could do or was that just a job that kind of anybody from your school or class might have jumped into? Unknown Speaker No, that was really a job, anybody who might have jumped into and I at the time was actually interested in working in radio. Before I realized that I wanted to have a roof over my head. But I but I did just want money. You know, my, my older sisters a couple years older, was working at a kitchen of a nursing home a couple years before, you know, I started working. And so I wanted that same sort of independence that having a little spending money gives you being able to save for things. Of course, we didn't have cell phones back then really very much but but you know, things like that. That's what I really wanted. And I think even you know, I probably worked hard to demonstrate my worth, to the my coworkers. Unknown Speaker Make sense. And I think that's kind of the story of how I, I got into my first job as well. So my very first job was at a movie theater. And I don't really know why I picked a movie theater is somewhere I wanted to work at first, but it sounded like a fun place to be. And so, you know, a couple of the things that I remember about that experience, you know, from the interview side of things, it was I came into it probably very differently than I would suggest other people come into it. But I really opened the door for the person that was interviewing me to be like, are you Do you have any concerns about blindness? Right? I wouldn't ask that question today. Now, knowing what I know. But I think having being willing to answer those questions, and those concerns and assuage those concerns, whether it's through your actions, or through your words, is a really important first step in that. And so, you know, one of the things that that we talked about then was the big concern and working a box office of a movie theater was I rate checking IDs for people under 17 watching our rated movies and now being double that age and looking back I go man, was that really that big of a deal, but to the company it was and and so there were some very awkward moments where I you carded a 42 year old at one point, he's like, Oh, do you need to see my my ID for my credit card? Oh, yes, yes, that's exactly what it is. So, but I think, you know, the the other piece of that now as I think back is that, you know, I was somebody who had grown up with this idea of of using my remaining vision to get work done. And so for me, right, full disclosure, working a box office was something that was pretty draining on my eyes. But as I got more experience with the, with that manager, and with that organization, I realized this is really not as great as it seemed like it could be. And so instead of saying, Hey, I don't think this job is gonna work for me, instead of trying to figure out right, I didn't know Jaws, I didn't know a lot of computer. But what I did know is that there was a lot of work to do at the concession stand, that was a lot more exciting than standing in one place for eight hours a day. And so, you know, it was learning, okay, all the candy is always going to be in the same spot. So maybe I'm not working the cash register, but somebody can call out what they need, and I can get it, the drinks, that they don't move, right, the cuts Don't move, the hot dogs that really do sit there for hours at a time. They don't really move positions much. But it was some interesting times to have, you know, realizing that learning how to make popcorn, you really don't want to know what's in there. But doing that same time, for me was an experience in kind of getting to Steve's point getting getting my hands dirty, and getting in there to find out from the what Customer service is really all about. And we had a family at one point, come up and say, hey, my kid needs a soda there, you know, she's got diabetes, I really need to get her some sugar, and my coworker for saying, okay, that'll be $3 and 21 cents. And, you know, she's like, I don't have time I need to get her something. And, you know, the first thing that occurred to me was, you know, what, I'm sure we can figure out how to say that we needed to give a cup of soda away. Right? And so having the opportunity to win all my coworkers and even the the lead at the time, were saying, Oh, no, we can't possibly do that going, you know what, I know what accommodations are like, for me as a blind person, and I know what it's like to share those with people who need them. So you know, it's about finding ways to do those jobs. That may not be like everybody else's doing them, but showing some ways that you can provide that same value. Unknown Speaker Absolutely. Unknown Speaker And Corbin Steve, this is Beth, I just wanted to let you know that I am here I kind of got mixed up with the times whether it was Eastern or Central, etc. and not a problem. Unknown Speaker Exactly one panel, not sure what's good or bad. Do you want to give us a quick synopsis of of maybe who you are and what you're what you're doing professionally now and then also a little about your first job. Unknown Speaker Absolutely. Hi, everyone. My Unknown Speaker name is Beth mugger. And I am from I currently live in Minnesota. I have I grew up in Wisconsin and spent some time in Denver as well. Currently, I work as a teacher of the blind and visually impaired serving students in Minnesota in several districts. Unknown Speaker And Unknown Speaker I think someone needs to mute their microphone. So in terms of professionally, I have a master's in vocal performance. So I spent some time doing music work. And then after that, I went back to school and got a second Master's, to become a teacher of the blind and visually impaired. I spent some time in singing and working, you know, singing professionally with choirs giving private lessons. And now I do teaching blind students as my as my job. However, my first job, I was a strolling opera singer at a Macaroni Grill. And it was a wonderful experience. I couldn't have asked for a better job experience from just the overall interview experience itself to getting the job getting accommodations for that job. And then, you know, performing those the duties that I had been hired for. I don't know, you know, how much detail you know, but, you know, I went through the interview process I turned in my application, you know, in person, they, um they called me back for an interview in an audition. And then I was hired to perform the duties of strolling around and singing at different tables. As Sorry, Unknown Speaker I'll back up Unknown Speaker I, Unknown Speaker as I continued with, as I continued with the job, and I also took on other duties of a hostess. And so I would seek customers and bring them their menus I would take to go orders over the phone, I would kind of help the servers and keep people. And Unknown Speaker I would help the servers when they were busy, kind of keep customers occupied and entertained. And when we'd have big parties, I would help them, like arrange the restaurant and work on making sure that we had, you know, the right parties for the right tables, etc. So that was kind of the overview of what I did. And what I'm doing now. Unknown Speaker We have somebody with a hand up be silver. Unknown Speaker Okay, hello, you guys there. Unknown Speaker Yes, okay. Unknown Speaker Hey, actually, my name is Brett. I just want to let you guys know, one big takeaway, and this is for, for parents, I know some people were asking some questions in the chat. You know, there's nothing wrong with volunteering. That's how I got my first job. And unfortunately, you have to prove yourself in a lot of cases to these employers. That's just the whole hard core truth to this. And so yeah, it's I think volunteering is important, even though you're not getting paid, you know, a lot of people saying, Well, you know, I'm not getting paid. What, what's the point of doing that? Well, eventually, you know, the employer may hire you. But I'd say volunteering is pretty, pretty vital. Unknown Speaker You know, I agree with you, brother. And I would be curious, Steve, and best for your thoughts on this. But I think what occurs to me is that volunteering is certainly a very good thing to do. And it's a great way to get involved to meet new people to get experience. But I and I think there's a lot of things that can carry over in terms of transferable skills. But I think when I'm thinking about first jobs, I'm thinking of somebody who's in the 14 1516 year old range, and really getting them experience in a work setting where, you know, sometimes as a volunteer, even a regular volunteer, your boss is less likely to come down hard on you for not doing something because they recognize you're free, and they really don't want to upset you too much. Because they're going to lose that free labor. And I think when you're working for somebody, they're a lot more likely to really call you out on what you're doing. That is not maybe not as what they want to be doing not the right image to be sending a better way to handle the situation. You know, when when somebody for example, does complain, right, bring that forward to to the person who is the employee, Beth or Steve, did you have any experiences similar to that with with your first managers? Unknown Speaker No. Unknown Speaker I had, I had a few different managers actually, at my first job, and the they were pretty good. There was there was a blind person, though, the summer before I worked this, this program, who had a lot of other cognitive disabilities on top of blindness. And I was judged a lot, I think, based on his expectations at first. And and his abilities. And, you know, honestly, that's been kind of a growth opportunity, as we say, in the corporate world, I guess, for me to think about though, like, how, you know, hierarchy of disability within blindness, how we treat and judge people with other disabilities on top of blindness. I would hope that I am more more patients now than I that I was then when I was kind of being judged by lower expectations. Certainly from some of the managers, I think there was, you know, more concerns about safety. And, you know, not seeing that I was that I was independent and capable. Unknown Speaker Yeah, and I think you've you've segue nicely to the Another question we had over here in the chat that I saw about handling discrimination from a in the in the interview process, and maybe some ways that parents can support their students in that endeavor. And I think one idea that comes to mind, at least for me on that is that sometimes when we do, we think of mock interviews that we do with a career center with a job coach, we are thinking about the questions that, you know, tell me about an experience when or what would you do in this situation? You know, what is your best strength, those kinds of questions, and I think we also need to make sure that we mix in there How Will someone respond to the question that maybe is out of bounds from a legal perspective? And I think everybody has to answer that themselves. Right? So the, the legal answer is, the only question that an employer can ask you is, how would you do this job with or without an accommodation? So you could, for example, say, you know, well, with your box office software, I use a computer through by using the keyboard and listening to audio output, while I'm also talking to some microphone, identify currency by using an ibill. reader for you go visit the Bureau of Engraving and Printing in the exhibit hall for more info. So, you know, those are or through an iPhone app. But what what can't be is right, how would you as a blind person possibly do this job? very broadly, broad brushstrokes, but I think it might also be, depending on how that situation is going. Right? It may be the kind of thing where you can just answer the question that you wish they'd asked, you might also find a way to say, Well, you know, legally, I know, this is what we can talk about here. So let me answer that question for you may also behoove you to just give them that answer of, yeah, I'm blind, and here's how I, here's how I do my life, let's move on, you know, and kind of assuage their concerns that way. That's even here, you Unknown Speaker know, go ahead, but Unknown Speaker um, you know, what, that first job, I really didn't have any issues about accommodations or services, I think, my manager set the bar really high. For what, you know, I, I should be able to expect from employer, I've had other ones, you know, in the future, or, I guess, beyond that job, who were not as accommodating. You know, I had one employer asked me, What am I supposed to tell parents of students, that you're about your blindness, and that you're blind, and I'm like, that I'm blind, like, and that will work it out. And I can certainly talk to them directly. But, you know, I don't need you to be telling them anything in particular. And that is that one, I ended up for a number of reasons taking to complaining to the EEOC about it. And then, you know, having discussions of, you know, discrimination based on my blindness. But just in terms of, you know, that first job, I was pretty, I was very lucky. Unknown Speaker So, for me, I think having a job coach was helpful in helping me come up with techniques that I hadn't thought about, and I don't really like that, because she was a sighted job coach, and, you know, sort of sought her as her mission to, you know, teach blind people how to do these sorts of jobs. But I do think that as, as blind adults who are more advanced in our careers, we always depend on a network of blind people for techniques, when we don't know when we need some ideas and inspiration on how we might do something. And I think it's crucial that that kids have, you know, maybe mentors, you know, there are blind vendors, blind people who are chefs, blind people who've, you know, organized picnics or large, you know, large, large food events. Home management instructors, right. blind kids, teenagers, starting out with their first jobs need to know that they have someone they can ask, Hey, they want me to try, you know, serving french fries on a hotline of food tomorrow, how do I not accidentally stick the tongs and the chili next to it? You know, what techniques did you use? Sometimes people, you know, people in the kitchen teaching me things didn't always know how to teach them very well. And so they would, of course, depend on the job coach, which was not so desirable. But But I think that people starting out with their first jobs need to know how to ask for the help they need. Getting people to teach them things more verbally more, you know, hands on sometimes. And then yeah, knowing they have that network of blind people. Unknown Speaker And I want to Unknown Speaker start today, I was gonna say, obviously, the National Federation of the Blind, but I think even more specifically, in a lot of cases, you you literally should have a person who has done something very similar to the job that you're doing, that you could, you know, text or call or something Unknown Speaker I can render I wonder, Steve, if that one idea that came to mind is for parents that may be in that situation, right? So they have a son or daughter, who's going to be moving toward, you know, employment and maybe it's you find that thing in the house that you haven't bothered to teach your kid because that's Because you haven't thought they could do it, but you just didn't ever teach them that skill. So for me, it was laundry, right? I didn't really learn how to do laundry until I was 18. And then it goes, Well, it's really quite simple. not so simple when I was going off to college and saw a machine with 17 dial on it. And I'm saying, Don't worry, when you go to college, you won't have a machine early this nice, there only be two switches, right? But still Unknown Speaker right. There. They're all digital. Unknown Speaker That's right, yeah, now, they're totally different. There's no such thing. But I think it might be the kind of thing where as a parent, you say, you know what, let's pretend that I'm going to teach you how to light a candle. Let's pretend that I'm going to teach you how to deep fry potatoes, whatever it is, and you are going to be the most unhelpful teacher that you've ever been. And, and you teach, like you're teaching a sighted person, oh, I grab this. And I do that. And over here, you see when it does, right? And you have and prepare your kiddo for this ahead of time. But you say, ask questions, right? And get them used to going? What's this? I can't see what this is, can I you're saying shake a little bit, can I see how much you've put in, you know, those kinds of techniques, you know, maybe a way that we can start with, you know, students as early as 1012, maybe even earlier, and getting them to ask the questions about what they need. Unknown Speaker And then to I think, another idea is to turn that around, you know, after they get in practice, knowing what they need, then give them the opportunity to teach you say, hey, let's have you teach me how to do this. And, Unknown Speaker you know, I'll, Unknown Speaker I'll do it, like, you know, you need to do it. So that way they can feel confident in the skill. And you know, and confident and, and showing you that they know how to do it and showing themselves they know how to do it, too. Yeah, I agree. Unknown Speaker And I think so he mentioned laundry core, my mom truly has a deep enjoyment of doing laundry, it's kind of strange. And she taught me how to do laundry. I do appreciate that. So does my wife. But but I think it's also important to know your limits as a teacher, and to know when when you maybe haven't thought of a good technique. having kids of my own now I know, they don't always want to learn from me. And so it can really help to have that sort of mentoring relationship with other blind folks, when you've kind of reached the limits of, you know, your teaching, or you just can't think of, you know how something might be done. In fact, at at my job, when I was working in the cafeteria, I met a chemistry student at the local college, the dorm I was staying at, and he was just, you know, four or five years older, working as a plant chemist. And he was kind of one of the first people who actually saw that I had a lot more potential than just wiping down tables and kind of took me under his wing. I ended up going to that college. When I graduated high school, and it was it was a really great kind of social network sort of thing, pre Facebook. But having having those relationships come out of summer jobs. And you know, high school jobs is really important for everybody and blind kids really need that too. And so kind of just along the lines of mentoring, so to speak. Unknown Speaker As we do have a couple of hands raised if you want to get to those Jelena I believe you you've had your hand raised for a little bit. I just unmuted you. Juliana's iPhone. Unknown Speaker Hi, everybody. Hear me? Angelina. Hi. So I'm actually teenager. Um, and I had a few questions. I had one question for Beth. Um, and because I was very interested in music and Opera, and I went to the School for the Arts here in my city in Santa Fe. And, yeah, so I was wondering just like, what exactly it took him like, if you got like brown music, and like how that exactly how that worked. Unknown Speaker That's great. might be something that we can follow on afterwards. And we can maybe take some questions about first jobs at least here. Unknown Speaker Yeah. And then yeah. I had one other question about like, a first job. So I had an experience where I was working at a vet. And I worked with another person who definitely had some I think it Asperger's or something and today it was kind of categorize us into the same group. And so there'd be like, Oh, well, like I heard somebody be like, well, you should just give her very simple tasks like I don't know like putting a lid on medicine. bottles and like, Okay, I understand that that's what they want me to do. But I felt very like, discriminated against. And also like, I'm also African American and female, and I have Jewish last name. So I mean, and so I like in that case, I feel like, I wasn't really sure exactly what to say because or like somebody was I label the washing machine. And somebody took the labels off of the washing machine. And I'm pretty sure I knew who it was, but I didn't. So I didn't know and those types of situations, it's kind of hard. And then even essentially, that I was at, they left me at my job, an accident. So I felt like I couldn't even go to them to ask for any help. And Unknown Speaker what I'm hearing from you, Joanna, is that there have been some situations that have been discriminatory, but probably just enough under the surface that it's been wrong, like to call them or address them. Unknown Speaker Right. Unknown Speaker Yeah. And so, Steve, do you have any thoughts on how to handle those kind of, I daresay passive aggressive? Yeah, regressions, you know, that sort of thing. Unknown Speaker I think first, it's, it's really helpful to have someone to talk to about things like that to know, kind of help you figure out if it was discrimination and how you should address it. Because if someone has, I should say, when someone has lower expectations of us, sometimes we can educate past that sometimes we can, you know, just keep showing them that we can do something or you know, we can volunteer, we can step up. But sometimes there are times when you need to talk to a supervisor, that can be really tough if you have, you know, not a great relationship or if the supervisor is doing the discriminating. And it can honestly be a little tricky with summer jobs or, you know, temporary jobs like that. But I also think the one thing to keep in mind is that you, you should feel free to push back against discrimination to stand up for yourself and know that summer jobs, short term jobs, you know, don't last forever. And so it's such a great place to try. Unknown Speaker And Unknown Speaker to make mistakes, and you know, maybe if you push too hard, you know, and offend people. You won't you won't have that job forever. And if you if you stand up for yourself, and the discrimination stops, then what a great, you know, what a great learning. Yeah, Unknown Speaker yeah. Yeah. coming behind you. Julian, I appreciate it. Unknown Speaker Yeah, no problem. I would also add Unknown Speaker to that, I agree with Steve about going to a supervisor and just explaining to them, you know, about high expectations about the expectations that you have for yourself and about the ones that other people should have for you. And, you know, offer, you know, talk to other staff members about you know, or just just just to say to them, let me show you what I can do. You know, it's it's not always easy, because you want them to just automatically say, you know, I can, you know, you can do everything that I can do, but sometimes people need to be shown and educated and it's really tough. Unknown Speaker Watch, like, the labeling thing was purposefully so I couldn't do it because I had done a successful load of laundry with the label on and then somebody was just like, Oh, well, great. You can't do that anymore, because I took the lid off. Unknown Speaker Right. And I think that's the kind of thing Joanna where you could even say, you know, do the in, you know, and maybe it's you know exactly who it is. But you say let's, I'd like to get a group together to discuss this, because I think we have an opportunity here and you say, hey, just as if I went over there and scrubbed off all the print, that's the equivalent of taking these off. And that may not be the most beautiful label, but that's because the person who made this mistake I didn't think about the needs of someone who can't see it. So you know what, here's why these are there. Here's why they're necessary and and see where that where that goes. But I appreciate where you're coming from to that. I think it's important to remember that these are jobs and they are just as protected of employment as a full time job that you might get after graduating with a master's degree. So they're no different just because they're these entry level positions. And in some ways, they're say they're even more important because of their such they gate to a lot of jobs down the road. Jean, did we have more more hands up for questions? Yeah, Unknown Speaker we do have we have briley your hand has been up for for a while. Let me unmute you as well. briley O'Connor Unknown Speaker Yep. Hello. Um, I just want to ask a quick question about How can parents, what would be helpful from a parent when their teenager is applying for jobs, and they experience discrimination in the hiring process, because we know that it happens. And we often, even if it's not super specific, maybe there's just new callback about a job. Maybe their friend gets the job instead of them. But, you know, we all know that if they could see they probably would have gotten it too. So what's a way to be to be affirming of that experience without dismissing that that happens? Because I think sometimes the instinct is to go, Well, we don't really know that that's why you didn't get it when? Most likely that is, so we don't want to be dismissive. But we also don't want to be defeatist, either. So what are some good techniques that parents can use? Unknown Speaker I wonder if each of us could maybe take 30 seconds? and answer that question, and maybe we can fit in? Jeff and Jane, maybe we fit in one more question after this. You know, I think the first thought that comes to mind for me, and I appreciate what you're saying about, you don't want to, to that you want to acknowledge the experience, but you also want to push your kiddo to, to push back. And you know, one thing that that is out there, and as a possibility, is to go meet with that or asked to meet or, you know, walk up to that manager, if it's a retail store and say, Hey, I had applied for this position. And I didn't hear from you, or I know that, you know, you've found someone already. But what is this? You know, what is the reason that that what can I do differently next time to get this position. So you're asking basically, for interview feedback. And in that experience, you may find out that it was direct discrimination, great, we can go down a different road, you may find out that it was a misunderstanding or confusion. And it's something that you can do differently in the interview next time. And maybe it's a mix of both. But it's a way of getting putting your student back in the driver's seat to say, you know what, let's go find out what's really going on, or at least what we can learn about directly as going on, and use that in future interviews and conversations. But Steve, do you have maybe a quick thought on that? And we can try to get to one more question. Go ahead. Unknown Speaker Well, I would say that I agree with you Korb, about reaching out to the manager, or whomever you applied for the job with a via email going to them directly. I also think it's a great opportunity to educate a child about, you know, discrimination, and the laws surrounding it, and, you know, kind of their options, you know, or not necessarily their Options, Options, but just knowing about, you know, what their choices are based on the situation that they're faced with. Unknown Speaker Um, Unknown Speaker but just in general, I think that, you know, encouraging them to communicate, and, you know, finding out exactly why they didn't get the job, or if they're, you know, can be asking, encouraging them to ask questions. Well, is there are there more questions that I can answer for you, too, you know, about my, about who I am, and you know, how I can do things, or even saying, you know, ask the person who you will apply to the job for what I can do to improve my application for the next job that I apply for, will be another idea. Unknown Speaker I agree with all that. And I think it's also important to know that it can be so hard to get a job when you haven't ever had a job. And so, sighted people, work their friends, they work parents connections, family connections, and you should absolutely use those, you know, sometimes even start with those because, you know, we all have to do what we have to do to find a job, especially that first job. And if there's any way that you can, you know, use your networking skills, to secure that first opportunity to at least prove yourself and start proving yourself. I would not feel bad about using that at all, you know, and even even your fellow blind friends. Unknown Speaker It's a great point. And I think we're over time and I think we may need to let our zoom host go to the next meeting to start on time. But I'll throw out there that I'm pretty much the only corbeil find on the only one man FB and the only one you'll find on most social networks. So feel free to drop me a note through the crowd compass app, the attendee hub, or I'm sure you can, you can find me anywhere. And I would love to connect with you and answer any more of your questions. And if you want to get in touch with our panelists, feel free to shoot an email info And opc.org and we'll make sure to get you in touch. Yes, I Unknown Speaker was going to say because I don't think I'm on that app. And, you know, I haven't been as involved with the organization as in previous years, but I know that I can be reached through any of the hosts here. corbs Steve, Unknown Speaker Melissa riccobono, Unknown Speaker etc. Absolutely. Unknown Speaker Thanks, everyone. Unknown Speaker Thanks. Thanks for everyone for joining and Thanks, Jeff and Jean for for moderating us. Unknown Speaker Yes. Thank you. Unknown Speaker Thank you. Transcribed by https://otter.ai